Badge identification

[George.]

Max/John,

You have been extremely helpful so far, and I hesitate to ask for further assistance, but I've just come across this badge, it's 2¼" x 1½" and I wonder if you can identify it for me please?

Thank you

George

[MaxD]

Easy one this time - assuming WW2 era and RE that is the badge of appointment of a Regimental Quartermaster Sergeant.  His rank was Warrant Officer Class II.  Ranked above the three/four Company/Squadron Sergeant Majors.

MaxD

See my later post

[George.]

I'm pleased that one was easy but it has confused me somewhat.
My father's record states that he was appointed Acting Warrant Officer Class II* and Company Sergeant Major on 22nd June 1946 but there is a photograph taken on 2nd June 1946 that clearly states he has that rank.
How does that fit with the RQSM badge? I have a very vague recollection from when I was very young that my father did mention being a RSM, but it may have been a RQSM, whatever the difference is.
Also, the typed copy of his record that I have omitted that he had the France-Germany Star. I queried that with the MOD and they confirmed that he had been awarded that Star. It just makes me wonder if something else was omitted when the record was being typed out.

[MaxD]

Just a thought prompted by KGs earlier signpost to India.

I had been looking on the type of cypher purely as an indicator of which monarch was on the throne at the time.  It is now clear to me that in this case, and I found at least two others in India, that the cypher is there because the title of the regiment is "Queen Victoria's Own.......". This is probably old hat to the medal buffs but I am tucking the thought away for future reference.

KG cited the (British) 21st (Empress of India's) Lancers who did indeed use the cypher (although not inside the garter) in that fashion.

MaxD

[John915]

Good morning,

It is possible that the wrong date was put on his records if you have photographic evidence that says otherwise. Quite easy to put in an extra "2" .

His rank would have been WO2, he would then have had different appointments. So company sgt major, regtl quartermaster sgt etc are appointments not rank. RQMS is the senior WO2 and 2nd senior WO in a regt after the RSM (WO1) and is usually the deputy RSM.

John915

Added, some regts did things slightly differently. In my old regt RQMS held the rank of WO1.

[MaxD]

George

I have modified my earlier post.  I think I have my time frames mixed up.
The rank for a CSM and an RQMS is Warrant Officer Class II and his photo would confirm that he was wearing the crown surrounded by the laurel wreath which at that time was worn by the CSM.
If he was appointed RQMS or RSM (the former the senior supplier/logistics man, the latter the senior man manager) then his docs have missed it.

Sorry to confuse.

MaxD

PS - Could someone please confirm what badge an RQMS wore in that era (1946).  John???

[John915]

Back again,

The badge shown is correct for RQMS. I'm not 100% certain whether the laurel around the WO2 crown was to show seniority or appointment.

WO2 rank was created in 1915 and was given the larger crown (Edwards?) as a distinguishing mark. My searches show that the laurel was used from then for RQMS appointment.

Again, whilst some units did there own thing by tradition, coy, sqdn, batt SM etc should only be wearing the crown with no laurel.

John915

Added, I have to correct the above, crown with laurel is WO2 as MaxD said. Crown alone seems to have been the very short lived rank of WO3. Done away with in 1940. As I said before, online searches are not always 100% accurate. One site will tell you something and another contradicts that info. John

[George.]

Things are much clearer now, but where would the RQMS badge be worn, on a cap I assume?

[John915]

Back again,

The rank badge is worn on the lower right sleeve.

I think I should clarify we are only talking WW2 for this rank badge. Prior to 1938 and after 1947 WO2 is a crown with no wreath. The wreath was added  between those dates to distinguish from the short lived WO3 rank ( platoon sgt maj). John