Grandparent's Tacy maiden name Roecliff born 1913 Grandfather Samuel Neil

[bambam1302]

Just trying to go through the various points

The Curry/ie /(O)Neill/Rocliffe children's births are less than 100 years old so unless the mother's maiden name is recorded on the index we can't find them. The dates the index records mother's maiden name varies from place to place.

Usually when a couple are not married the children's birth are registered in the mother's name but of course a couple could claim to be married when they were not. We can't see a marriage for Curry/ie Rocliffe and the marriage we believe is Tacy and Samuel's is in the name Rocliffe while a widow would usually be in the index under her married name.

You give a birth year for Tacy of 1913 but we haven't found a birth, if the birth year is based on her age at death than it may possibly be incorrect. Death ages are often incorrect.
To find Tacy's and Samuel's birth we need at least their father's names and occupations, this information will be on the marriage cert.
The marriage cert may also clear up the issue of a marriage to Curry/ie or not.

The picking up and dropping of the O on O'Neill is normal for all names with an O and doesn't generally cause any problems.

I think what you need to do is collect as much information as you can from family, even little bit helps and get the marriage cert.
You don't need a certified one a research/photocopy will have all the same information and is much cheaper but it must be ordered by post or fax.
To order it you will need, vol, district, and year which is here https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYG4-2NY
normally there is a page number as well but it is missing but this shouldn't cause a problem, although it may be worth making a note of than fact on the form.
and the form on this link
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do
Fingers crossed it's the correct marriage.

We still don't know what if any connection there is to America, it could of course be on the O'Neill side.

It's great we could collect so much on the Rocliffe's in Dublin and even better to be able to trace them further back in the UK but until you know for sure who Tacy's father is it's all just possibilities.

I'll have a look at the Ervine address and see if it throws up anything.

Hi And again thank you so very much for the help & time you guys have put into this can't appreciated it enough x    The most I could get from mum was her mother  was  called
Tacey Sarah Rocliffe married Samuel Patrick O'Neill in 1948 - Taceys d.o.b was 28/12/13  she thinks her mum Died  around 1976 - she had a sister called Nellie & she had a daughter called Patricia.
Samuel was in the merchant Navy born in England and came over to England in around 1951 - the connection with America was mums great,great Grandmother  also   Curry was a child Tacey had in 1945 with a 1st boyfriend she doesn't know her father Samuels d.o.b or when he died or even recall her grandparents names - hope this helps  ty once again X

[Sinann]

Collecting address's from Rocliffe death certs, maybe some will ring a bell with your mother.

William11 Irvine Terrace
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1921/05091/4397879.pdf
Sarah 4 Buckingham Place
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1909/05461/4528375.pdf
William died at 21 Portland Place North Road
Informant James 44 Hazel Road Donneycarney
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1956/04410/4149184.pdf
George and wife Elizabeth Nimrod, Margaret Rd Malahide
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1952/04487/4178317.pdf
Elinor 8 Westroad Fairview
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1951/04502/4183306.pdf
6, 7 and 18 Hawthorn Terrence, they seem to have lived there for ages, given as both East Wall and North Strand.
Arthur 18 Summerhill
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1923/05059/4386429.pdf
Alice 49 St Mary's Road
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05772/4631494.pdf

[Sinann]

Lucy Sarah Rocliffe daughter of William ( I think the William who died at 11 Irvine) and Elinor Gray was born on the 28 Dec 1913
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01422/1583847.pdf
She had a sister Charlotte
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01361/1561077.pdf

Charlotte's birth gives William's job as bookbinder which is the same as the death of William at 11 Irvine Terrace
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1921/05091/4397879.pdf

[Sinann]

Lucy may be an error on the part of the registar, because Elinor Gray was a widow when she married and she gives New York as her birth place in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/North_Dock/Northcourt_Avenue__Lower__Middle__and_Upper/26901/

Marriage 1912
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1912/09922/5606645.pdf

[Sinann]

William gives his father as James S, not James W
But James W's son William is a bookbinder in 1911 at 6 Hawthorn.
James S son is only 16 in 1911 at 7 Hawthorn.
Errrrrrr
Think it's the older William who married despite the S after James.

[Sinann]

Mount Jerome Cemetery
Rocliffe headstones
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/dublin/photos/tombstones/mt-jerome-125/target108.html
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/dublin/photos/tombstones/mt-jerome-118/target67.html
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/dublin/photos/tombstones/mt-jerome-107/target52.html
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/dublin/photos/tombstones/mt-jerome-43/target59.html
James S Rocliffe in undertakers books
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/countrywide/cemeteries/nichols-1935-2.htm
James W Rocliffe
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/countrywide/cemeteries/nichols-1933-1.htm

[bambam1302]

Lucy may be an error on the part of the registar, because Elinor Gray was a widow when she married and she gives New York as her birth place in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/North_Dock/Northcourt_Avenue__Lower__Middle__and_Upper/26901/

Marriage 1912
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1912/09922/5606645.pdf

Lucy may be an error on the part of the registar, because Elinor Gray was a widow when she married and she gives New York as her birth place in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/North_Dock/Northcourt_Avenue__Lower__Middle__and_Upper/26901/

Marriage 1912
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1912/09922/5606645.pdf

Hi wow this doesn't sound right or is it me!?
But it looks like my gran if she is my gran that is - has used a d.o.b of Williams Daughter Lucy Sarah as its a bit of a coincidence don't you think!? none of the dates, years are even matching. No wonder my poor mother knows nothing about herself she has no birth certificate... Her mother may not even be her mother  is there even a d.o.b of Elinor the black widow 🙈 Lol ?? And does Samuel Patric even exist? Wow this is too freaky for words Sinann 😳

[Sinann]

Elinor's first husband was Patrick Joseph Necy, one of their daughters got married in 1930, her address was 11 Irvine Terrace
Frances Josrphine Necy to Ralph Bertie
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1930/09034/5269006.pdf

[Sinann]

You'll have to get that marriage cert.
Tacy is an unusual name so the registar may have thought it was Lucy, given that it was hand written script, every thing else adds up, the date of birth, the American mother, the place of birth, the family lived at 11 Irvine Terrace later on.