Records for R.Wibberley 8th border regiment

[Krazykat87]

29456 pte R.Wibberley 8th border regiment
I have his medal roll index card and medal and award roll
Also an image of him and a friend in his uniform (I have to guess which is him even though I should clarify it with my grandad but forget each time I go to see him)  but wondered if there was anything else I could possibly find?

Totally new to looking up all our family history but my great grandad is someone I would really really like to get to know as much as possible.
I recently found out on here actually that he was a prisoner of war at lumber, captured the day after he arrived on the front line... does this mean he didn’t actually see battle do you think?

If anyone can find more information or suggestions on where to look I would be eternally grateful as I’m getting overwhelmed by other leads also

Thank you advance :-) x

[KGarrad]

Nearly two-thirds of WW1 Service Records were destroyed in a WW2 bombing raid.

I'm not seeing your chap on either Ancestry or FindMyPast, so it looks to be lost.

[MaxD]

Bad news - KG is quite correct, his detailed service record does not survive.  His medal card only tells us that he arrived in France after the end of 1915.   The 8th Battalion had been there since September 1915 so presumably he was a later reinforcement.  The war diary may record the arrival of reinforcements now and again but he won't be mentioned by name.  His age may give a clue, they were supposed to be 19 before they went overseas but there were many exceptions.

Good news - there are POW records for him.  They show he was captured on 10 April 1918 in the area of Armentieres.  The first POW list is for prisoners at Worms POW camp in September 1918 and then another in Friedrichsfeld made in October 1918.  You can find both on Google.

The records are at https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/942139/3/2/
if you haven't used the Red Cross site before, enter the numbers one at a time in the box on the right and hit search which takes you to the ICRC list.

Then have a look at the diary for 10 April 1918 which will show the battalion still attacking and being attacked at the end of the Battle of the Ancre 1918 (not the one which you will recall came up in the other person's thread).

MaxD

[Krazykat87]

Yes I sadly knew of the ww2 fire destruction and just hoped maybe I wasn't very good at searching.
He was born in 1899 actually which is originally why I argued with my grandad about him being in ww1

Any records are good though and just takes me one step further from knowing him a little. He died in 69 so even my mum only had 9 years with him and she is now deceased too so can't ask her all the questions I should have.
Thanks max I will go have a browse for the POW records.
Been reading and searching the 8th bord since about 6pm to try learn a little more about them :-)

[MaxD]

He would have been 19 (just) at the time he was captured which lends credence to the family story about his quick capture.

However, the war diary gives an even better clue.  The entry for 1 April 1918 says:"New draft of 170 19 year old boys - excellent appearance and smart if (sic) parade".  The battalion then went into the line on 7 April and the POW record says he was captured on 10 April - so 9/10 days after arrival would be my suggestion.
In the war diary we read of the enemy attack resulting in the cutting off of a number of outposts and of the surrounding of elements of the battalion.  The battalion, indeed the whole brigade, was badly knocked about in this engagement so much so that the battalions of the brigade had to be formed together into a composite brigade.  On 15th April  a headcount for 8 Borders had found 5 officers and 53 men (a battalion had about 1000 men).

The action took in the area east of Ploegstreet Wood and along the River Lys in the area shown on the side by side maps (bottom half)
 http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=14&lat=50.7528&lon=2.9067&layers=101464927&right=BingHyb

MaxD

[Krazykat87]

Thank you. I downloaded the 3 things off the Red Cross link you sent yesterday. I downloaded transcripts of the battalions war diary so I guess I need to skip to Apr 1918 to glean the info you guys are seeing. The story of his capture was sent on here by a member so I'm hoping to at some point find out where the information came from. He was apparently with a friend at the time....

On another random note, do you know if all the soldiers carried bugles? And where a sword might come in to it? My grandad gave us a sword many many years ago and he's sure it was his dads. Then when he gave me an old suitcase with photos and stuff in there was a really old squashed small trumpet/bugle which I asked him about yesterday and he said again he's sure it was his dads but could be wrong.

Kk

[MaxD]

Bugles were not generally carried in action although given the idiosyncrasies of the British Army it would not be surprising if some did find their way to the front line.  Some bands and  Corps of Drums visited the rear ares to entertain their units when out of the line at rest.
Swords were carried in action only by the cavalry.  Almost all officers had their own swords and they were carried into action in the very early days of the war.
The essential difference between a military trumpet and a bugle is that the former is longer than the latter and is used more by cavalry units so - guesswork follows - if your is a trumpet, the combination of trumpet and sword says cavalry to me.  Was great grandad a cavalryman??

MaxD

[Krazykat87]

I only know of him being in the 8th borders. I will try get around to taking a picture,print then rescan to upload here. I no of no ancestors so far that were cavalry.
I wish I could just upload an image straight from my phone lol
Il try do it tonight once I'm back from work. Just a bit of a ball ache to print then scan again.

I did say to my grandad I was sure they didn't use swords but he was very adamant on the sword so I just wonder if he brought it home as a momentous or something

Kk

[Krazykat87]

The trumpet or bugle or whatever is very small actually. Just got it out to put next to my pone as comparison. Roughly 13cm