Author Topic: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's  (Read 7845 times)

Offline keyboard86

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #36 on: Saturday 04 November 17 03:20 GMT (UK) »
Hi again, do you agree that Joseph had the address of Lydia Craggs to return to after his first spell in the Army, if so the marriage of John Craggs to Lydia would confirm the name of his father?

Also I can confirm a Joseph Cragg with the birth date of 17/2/1870 is in Thornton Road, Bradford in 1939, which confirms the death certificate contained in his Army records. ??? Something is not quite right with that death certificate, as I believe the Joseph Cragg with that exact date of birth, was married in Grimsby as Joseph Craggs to Clara E Woods in 1920 Grimsby, he is with Clara in 1911 and is from Holton Le Clay in Lincolnshire?

Also  I see the departure of Ellen in 1900 to Brisbane, but also a Wm CRAGG b c 1875 also going in 1899 to Brisbane?

In 1891, John Craggs was living in Runcorn, Cheshire with wife Lydia?
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Offline Essnell

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #37 on: Saturday 04 November 17 13:26 GMT (UK) »
Hi from OZ.

Ok! need to ponder the address but it is possible that if this is the correct info he could have gone there.
How long were army stints - six years or three?  That would place him back in time for 1891 census if it is 3 years.

Ok so         the death seems to fit.   Oh dear!   it seems that they took a bit of licence with the surname dropping and /or re-adding the "s" as they chose.  Annie used Cragg on the 1891 census but a year later married as Craggs.  Really helpful!

There are a few Joseph Craggs so there could be two with the same birth date - a straw.  There were people who were plain Cragg as well.

What if I get the marriage Cert for Joseph and Clara?   that should show the parents.  A pdf image is inexpensive straight from GRO website.  takes 4-5 days so next Friday I would have it online.

About William coming to Brisbane  - Not a clue - but it is posible. I have wondered what Ellen did and where she stayed on arrival. She and Frederick Mark Holmes married in 1901. So almost a year later. I shall do  some work on the Queensland gov. Site and the Aust. Archives tomorrow.

something right out of nowhere:-   I was   looking up Fanny Massey yet again and this came up:

""1853 Births and Christenings -   SON, John Massey: christening: Kirkby in Ashfield, Nottingham: Mother: Fanny Massey.  Associated with the record of John Massey.""

  If this is her she was 16yrs old. The baby died, same day by the looks of things. Am looking for a birth reg.  ??  not coming up.   

At least this is a definite for the name Fanny Massey.   

Essnell

Offline keyboard86

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #38 on: Saturday 04 November 17 14:04 GMT (UK) »
Phew, sorted out Joseph Craggs b Lincolnshire, he was born Louth 1869 and dies in Cleethorpes, Clara E in Grimsby, so now to locate the Joseph Craggs/Clara marriage for couple in 1939 Bradford.
Marriage Joseph Cragg to Clara Airton Sept qtr 1915 Bradford 9b 444

Death Clara Cragg b c 1869 died March qtr 1948 Bradford v2b page 92 aged 79
Clara was a widow when she married Joseph Cragg.


 He was in the Army over 13 years?
In 1891 Joseph was earning a medal with clasp in India?

Don't ponder too long re the address that Joseph was returning to after his first stint:-
1901 census:-
Lydia Craggs 53 Widow occ Office Cleaner b Dover
Lydia Todd 21 Daughter b Woolmer
Plus Boarders
26, Tamworth Street, Salford
Census ref RG13/3735/91/46

An afterthought, surely Ellen would have mentioned that her brother had journeyed prior to her to Brisbane?
Keyboard86
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Offline keyboard86

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #39 on: Saturday 04 November 17 21:25 GMT (UK) »
Hi in addition to above suggest the birth of the John Massey in Kirkby in Ashfield  1853 was the son of Fanny Massey aged 19 shown as Servant at Church Street, Kirkby in Ashfield
Census ref HO107/2125/49/23
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Offline keyboard86

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #40 on: Sunday 05 November 17 18:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi again, one death to keep in mind is the James Cragg or Craggs June qtr 1959 Bradford 2b 144 aged 82
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Offline Essnell

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #41 on: Monday 06 November 17 04:31 GMT (UK) »
Hello  - been a tad busy last two days. 

Tried to find a birth rec for John Massey son of Fanny Massey 1853 but that seems to have not been done.  Did find on the Bishops Transcripts for Churches,  a full statement listing the child as illegitimate. This was at St Wilfrid C/E in Kirkby in Ashfield. 

Re Fanny - found her on the 1851 Census as dau. of Henry  Massey aged 14 yrs birth date 1837.   They were in Leeds at that point and Fanny was working in a Flax Mill.    if these are the ones!

Re Wm Cragg/s journey to Brisbane.  Yes this person did come here  - arrived 1900.  He was on the Electoral rolls straight away.   He left England, London, 5th Dec. 1899 arrived Brisbane,13th Feb. 1900 on the "Duke of Portland" as an assisted immigrant.

Question. Do you know if these persons were required to provide proof of birth registration or was it just done by the government?
As to us being told about him.   NO not a word - at least to me. My own Mother also never mentioned him.  I don't know if she even knew. 
I wonder if this person was Ellen's Brother?  I'll see if i can trace him on those Elec Rolls a bit further.  I'll also get Ellen's Marriage Cert it may have witnesses on there.

Sadly aIlot of info got lost when Ellen died and my Aunt turfed out so much - a box full of cards and letters from England.

Essnell

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #42 on: Monday 06 November 17 09:00 GMT (UK) »
Could this be her in 1851 as Fan Marr?

Piece: 2125 Folio: 30 Page Number: 53

Can't find any other reference to a Fanny / Frances Marr born in same place same time.

More likely Fanny in 1851

Piece: 2125 Folio: 49 Page Number: 23

Fits better with the family I found in 1841 and with Fanny having an illegitimate child in 1852 at Kirkby in A.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #43 on: Monday 06 November 17 09:57 GMT (UK) »
Good fit for John Craggs on age and pob in 1871, he's with a number of male lodgers all described as railway labourers. Although he is described as a stone mason on several records, I don't think we're looking for someone who did intricate carving as on medieval cathedrals, more likely cut and shaped stone blocks for roads and railways. But he is in Cumberland rather than Nottinghamshire where I would expect him to be if he had fathered Fanny's  child the previous year.

Piece: 5207 Folio: 50 Page: 11

added
Mansfield Woodhouse has nearby stone quarries, some of the stone from there was used in construction of Houses of Parliament

Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #44 on: Monday 06 November 17 10:18 GMT (UK) »
Could this be her in 1851 as Fan Marr?

Piece: 2125 Folio: 30 Page Number: 53

Can't find any other reference to a Fanny / Frances Marr born in same place same time.

More likely Fanny in 1851

Piece: 2125 Folio: 49 Page Number: 23

Fits better with the family I found in 1841 and with Fanny having an illegitimate child in 1852 at Kirkby in A.

Sorry, just seen this had already been found
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott