Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's

[LizzieL]

Tried to find a birth rec for John Massey son of Fanny Massey 1853 but that seems to have not been done.  Did find on the Bishops Transcripts for Churches,  a full statement listing the child as illegitimate. This was at St Wilfrid C/E in Kirkby in Ashfield. 

What about this
MASSEY, JOHN    1852  Quarter 3 in BASFORD  Volume 07B  Page 86 
No mother's mn recorded which often means illegitimate

[LizzieL]

So if Lydia A. 11 yrs - was born before 1886 marriage on the 1891 recs, then she was born in 1880.  It means that this John Craggs left Fanny Craggs between 1877 and 1879 Lancashire and went off with Lydia whom he had a child by before Fanny died in Cullingworth, Bingley .

Lydia jnr is on 1881 census with older sister Margaret as Todd with mother and father, William and Lydia snr in Wooler Northumberland..

[keyboard86]

Hi would seriously suggest you purchase the marriage certificate of John Craggs to Lydia Todd 1886, would love to see if John describes himself as
single or a widower, Lydia Todd 23 b Dover was in Sheffield Barracks in 1871, daughter Margaret was registered as Margaret Isabella Todd Sept qtr 1871 Eccleshall Bierlow v9c page 252 mmn Hobbs
William Todd married Lydia Hobbs March qtr 1866 Dover 2a 936

And of course the marriage of Joseph Cragg to Clara Airton 1915 Bradford to confirm his father was John Cragg/s
Keyboard86

[keyboard86]

Two Peter Masseys born Selston. The older one b 1842 s/o Matthew Massey and Elizabeth nee brian / Bryan who married in Alfreton, Derbys on 25 Aug 1841.
The younger one b 1843 s/o John and Ann. Mmn given as Weston on GRO index.
Can find Matthew and family in 1851 but not John and family

If we are hoping this was the family of Fanny Massey b c 1837 Nottinghamshire, then other than the Fanny in 1851 indicating her age was 19, ( 14/15 would have been better) then John Massey in 1851 gives:-

John Massey 41 Widower occ Lab in Iron Works b Kirkby
William 16 b Kirkby
Mary Ann 14 b Kirkby ( baptised 1836)
Elizabeth 10 b Kirkby
Peter 7 b Selston
Hannah 5 b Selston
Sarah 3 b Selston
Residing at Church Lane, Selston
Census ref HO107/2125/85/25
Keyboard86
  Sorry Lizzie did not scroll far enough forward!

PS re the Frances Massey b 1837 Leeds you located in 1851 Leeds, Father Henry, in 1871 she is with brother Henry 37 b Leeds, Mother Harriet 66 b Alfreton, Frances 34 b Leeds in Derbyshire
Census ref RG10/3561/124/25

Also happy now that the 19 year old Fanny in 1851, who had a child John in 1852/3 is not the daughter of John, but of William & Sarah, her baptism was Fanny Massey 30th September 1832 St Wilfrid Father William Mother Sarah

Fanny Massey married Anthony Lowe St Wilfrid, Kirkby in Ashfield 29th Oct 1852
John Massey did not die young, he is John Massey Lowe aged 8
Census ref RG09/2433/83/57

[Essnell]

Hi ........Looks like another visit to GRO UK.  later tonight it will be Friday before the PDF's get posted if I'm lucky.   

More later...

Essnell

[LizzieL]

Also happy now that the 19 year old Fanny in 1851, who had a child John in 1852/3 is not the daughter of John, but of William & Sarah, her baptism was Fanny Massey 30th September 1832 St Wilfrid Father William Mother Sarah

Fanny Massey married Anthony Lowe St Wilfrid, Kirkby in Ashfield 29th Oct 1852
John Massey did not die young, he is John Massey Lowe aged 8
Census ref RG09/2433/83/57

Good find. And this Fanny is still with Anthony and family right through to 1881 so that eliminates her as "our" Fanny

[Essnell]

Hello.

have ordered the two Marriage docs as suggested.  Marriage Certs are not on the PDF Pilot so these will be Full Certs sent snail-mail, leaving 14th Nov.- should be here by end of the month.{it's getting into Christmas postage so it will be a bit slower than usual. }

  Both Certs info are definite for both parties in both names.

Re the Stat Dec.
I contacted GRO Offices who returned some possible places where the Stat Dec MAY have been kept.   
I still would like to know how and what Mr Crabtree knew to be able to get Joseph to change his original statement and have that accepted by the Registrar in the January 1887.

Essnell.

[LizzieL]

Re the Stat Dec.
I contacted GRO Offices who returned some possible places where the Stat Dec MAY have been kept.   
I still would like to know how and what Mr Crabtree knew to be able to get Joseph to change his original statement and have that accepted by the Registrar in the January 1887.

Some thoughts on this:
In my (limited) experience of death certs for women - a married woman is usually described as wife or widow of..... on their death cert, but a single woman as the daughter of ..... even if an adult and sometimes with the addition of an occupation.

When Fanny died her son registered her death with what he thought was the correct information - as wife of John Craggs, because he believed them to be married and he knew his father John Craggs was still alive. (His army records show he knew his father's address so they must have kept in touch).
The Stat Dec changes Fanny's status to unmarried, lists the names she has been known by and gives her the occupation of housekeeper.
Whose housekeeper? Possibly Jabez Crabtree's? It is unlikely it means John Craggs's housekeeper because they must have separated some time before as John Craggs had married the widowed Lydia in the Quarter before Fanny's death.
As the Stat Dec is only a few weeks after Fanny's death, it suggests some documents may have come to light when Joseph and possibly Jabez were sorting out her possessions. Otherwise how would they have known the name Kelly (sounds similar to the wording on Joseph's birth cert) unless documents with that name hadn't been discovered after her death.

added
I wouldn't think that it is a case of Jabez getting Joseph to change his statement, I would suspect it was Joseph seeking Jabez's help (as presumably a more knowledgeable man in legal matters - Joseph was only 16) in correcting what he later discovered to be incorrect

[Essnell]