Author Topic: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's  (Read 4186 times)

Offline jamcat95

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #63 on: Saturday 03 February 18 09:38 GMT (UK) »
One other thing  do you know how I can research German records and Swedish or Danish ones.

Hi Essnell

I can help out in Sweden or Denmark if you want. Just let me know what is required.

Ian


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Offline Essnell

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #64 on: Monday 05 February 18 03:58 GMT (UK) »
Hi Ian,

Thank you.

My father's family are all German.  i have a birth Cert for him in German as well as English.  Back in 1910 they still looked to Germany even though living here in Australia. 

They all registered as aliens and most changed their surnames.

I need to look up the precise details of what I am looking for.

My Great great grandmother came form Denmark but was born in Sweeden. She emigrated here and married here in Australia.

Be in touch soon

Essnell.

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Offline John Robertshaw

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #65 on: Wednesday 07 February 18 03:48 GMT (UK) »
Hi all - I’m new on here - I only found this site & you people today after (through sheer frustration) typing “Fanny Craggs” into Google - I didn’t expect anything to come up as I’ve been working away in splendid isolation.

I have read the comments & decided rather than agree with some comments & disagree with others - I will write down what I (think) I know - & then let you shoot me down in flames.
I am:
The GG grandson of John Craggs & Fanny - I don’t believe that they were ever married
The G grandson of James William Lambert &  Annie Craggs, - Annie took the surname Craggs & John Craggs (stone mason) is named on her marriage certificate.

James & Annie were married in Cullingworth in 1892 & had 12 children, Fanny, George, Thomas, Violet, Ralph (my maternal GF), James & Herbert were born in Cullingworth, while William, Florence, Hilda, Ellen & Fred were born after the family move to Luddenden Foot.

Birth
John Craggs born A/M/J 1846 in Penrith, Cumberland (v25 - p150)

1851 - At Millgate, Gilling, Yorkshire North Riding.
Joseph Craggs *      35   Melsonby Yorkshire
Elenor   Craggs         25   Manchester Lancashire
Joseph    Craggs       9   Hartforth Yorkshire
James   Craggs   *       7   Gilling Yorkshire
John Craggs         4   Penrith, Westmorland
Thomas Martin Craggs   5m   Staindrop Durham
Jane Maglin (Visitor)      19   Manchester Lancashire (Elenor’s sister?)

Note Penrith was in Cumberland - which bordered Westmorland in the Lake District - the 2 were often confused - BUT there is only 1 Penrith!

1861 - Boarding at Farriers Arms Pub, Gilling Part, Yorkshire North Riding.
Most of the family & more children (including Ellen* & William*).
*Remind you of Fanny’s children at all?

 I cannot find John Craggs in 1861

1871 - Boarding at Armathwaite Railway Hut Cumberland (with other labourers & masons).
John Craggs 25 Railway Labourer - born Cumberland.
Please note - this does not mean that he was a railway labourer but rather that he was a labourer working on the construction of a new railway - the Settle - Carlisle Railway. Please research this - the line goes across some of the bleakest landscapes in England. He was not yet a stone mason.

1881 - Boarding at Cross Roads Yorkshire West Riding
John Craggs 40 - born Cumberland. He has (not unusually for men working in his situation) gained 5 years!
Tom Craggs  35 - born Cumberland. He too has gained 5 years! He also thinks that Durham is in Cumberland - or their landlord took an educated guess when the enumerator called? I am personally not concerned about these apparent anomalies - given how everything else fits.

Cross Roads is now part of Keighley & Cullingworth is now part of Bradford - however they are only 2.5 miles apart. I believe that he & Tom were working as masons on the Hewenden Viaduct outside Cullingworth. This was on the Keighley & Thornton branch of the Great Northern Railway that opened in 1883.

1871 - Sheffield Barracks Sheffield - we find William Todd 38 - soldier from Berwick on Tweed & his wife, Lydia Todd, 23 born Dover, Kent.

1891 - White Horse Inn, Wooler, Northumberland - we find William Todd 49 - innkeeper from Berwick & his wife, Lydia Todd, 33 born Dover, Kent, together with daughters, Margaret Todd 9 - born Sheffield & Lydia A Todd 1 - born Wooler,

Marriage J/A/S 1886 - Glendale, Northumberland - John Craggs marries Lydia Todd (10b 517) this is before Fanny “died twice”

1891 -  At 30 Pool Lane, Runcorn, Cheshire we have John Craggs 45 stone mason Cumberland Penrith (he’s got his age back - might be to do with getting married?), Lydia Craggs 44 - Dover & Lydia A Craggs (really Todd) 11 - Cumberland Wooler.
Again I think that John thinks everything north of Yorkshire is in Cumberland! Wooler is in Northumberland.

A quick look at Fanny & her children.

On their 1881 census Fanny is born in Nottinghamshire & Joseph in Sheffield Yorkshire. On first glance it looks like the other 4 children were also born in  Sheffield Yorkshire - because of the 4 “do” or dittos. If you look closely the enumerator has drawn 2 vertical lines either side of the dos that extends up into the word Yorkshire. I think that was his way of indicating that only Yorkshire had a do under it for the other 4 - i.e. excluding the word Sheffield.

One other thought that has come to me while writing this - re Sheffield. I think that there might be a link with Sheffield Barracks. John married Lydia who had a child Margaret there in 1872. Fanny had Joseph in Sheffield in 1872 before moving to N Yorkshire. Perhaps Fanny had links with the Barracks? Perhaps they kept in touch & that’s how John knew Lydia???  I shall have to look at that angle!
The children were born at the Quarry Huts in Hawes (where Wensleydale cheese is made) & the Births were registered in Aysgarth.The Settle Carlisle Railway had a branch line to Hawes. Stone for the stations, bridges and the like were quarried & dressed in Hawes by stone masons who lodged at the huts.

On to 1881- the huts at Over Wyresdale - provided lodgings for masons & labourers working on the extension to the Abbeystead Reservoir - perhaps  Fanny & John went there together as a joint enterprise?

John being in Cullingworth would explain how Fanny & the girls finished up there - but perhaps after time apart - they had grown apart?



Offline John Robertshaw

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #66 on: Wednesday 07 February 18 04:40 GMT (UK) »
(A quick search on the Barracks has shown no Fanny or Frances - A search on Kelly - one Michael Kelly 1848 - Ireland). A job for tomorrow as it’s now turned 4am!

Offline John Robertshaw

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #67 on: Wednesday 07 February 18 08:10 GMT (UK) »
Also - if you search for a census that I have mentioned, the transcriber had difficulty with the town of Penrith in the place of birth field. In the 1851 one he wrote it as Penult while in 1891 it became merely 3 question marks Once looking at the census, the hand written Penrith can be clearly seen.
If I type 3 question marks - this happens - ???

Another thing that struck me when composing the above is just how important the railways were in John Craggs' continuing employment, firstly as a navvy and later a mason. He trundled up & down the country following the work. Now Fanny set up lodging houses for the workmen - but consider this: once the masons had finished building - that was it - they had to move on to the next job. Now if John had been working on the reservoir  & living with Fanny & the children, along with other masons, the time would come when his work was done & he would have to move on. Other trades would then be needed to finish the job off once all the stone had been dressed - & they would need somewhere to live. Fanny I think would not leave her lodging house & the money it brought in - & this is something that was probably repeated over & over again. In effect they were part time cohabitees.

Back to the Sheffield issue. I checked for railway construction in Sheffield & guess what? The "new" Sheffield station was completed in 1870 together with a lengthy detour of the Derby - Leeds line which previously by passed Sheffield. The detour known as "the new road" now took all trains into Sheffield. Given that Fanny's first born Joseph was born in 1871 - my guess is that John left Sheffield when the worked finished - perhaps after Joseph was conceived - to go to his new job on the Settle - Carlisle railway construction. This could explain how he was in an Armathwaite Railway Hut for the 1871 census. Who knows perhaps Fanny followed him up there to open a lodging house?

I am going to focus on this railway connection with Fanny for a while & see how I get on!

Offline John Robertshaw

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #68 on: Thursday 08 February 18 14:13 GMT (UK) »
I feel like I'm have a conversation with myself here - it's good because at least I'm getting my thoughts down on paper (or at least on screen). The Craggs are now seriously doing my head in!!!

I have found Lydia "Cruggs" on 1901 (transcription error - clearly Craggs on handwritten census), - living in Salford - born Dover. Described as a widower - together with daughter Lydia TODD (reverted back from Craggs as per 1891) - born in Wooler.

Again they are in Salford in 1911 Lydia Craggs is still a widower and Lydia ALICE Todd is now Smith with 2 children (no Mr Smith - I wonder if he is a wandering mason like John - lol).

I have looked for John Craggs' death between 1891 & 1901 - but nothing fits geographically. So on the off chance I looked for him in the 1901 C. Now of course - what I found raises questions & a LOT of doubt in my head - but given John's history of moving about looking for work & the apparent difficulty that he has remembering his age - there is a very outside chance that he is up to his old tricks - & not dead.

In 1901 a John Craggs born in Cumberland is listed as a border at Midhope, Bradfield Yorkshire West Riding - not far from Sheffield. Described as married - but no wife with him. His age is given as 71 born 1830 (some 16 years too old) - he should be 55. However he is still working as a stone mason (difficult but not totally impossible for a 71 year old). He his boarding with other masons, navvies & horse drivers (waterworks). A quick Google brings up the construction of Langsett Reservoir at Midhope between 1898 & 1904.

Is this family driving me mad? I now have an apparently dead stone mason who is far too old building a reservoir. Was it at all common for an abandoned wife to described herself as a widow to avoid stigma? We all know what Fanny said re marital status!!! See
http://genealogytipoftheday.com/index.php/2016/01/23/not-really-widowed/ it is written regarding American Census - but would still apply in UK.

To double check - I did a complete census check - looking for any John Craggs born in Cumberland in 1830. I found only 2 John Craggs. Our John born 1846 & a John Craggs born in 1890.

I know I am going mad - now where's that bottle?

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #69 on: Thursday 08 February 18 15:10 GMT (UK) »
[quote author=John Robertshaw link=topic=781200.msg6428532#msg6428532

Again they are in Salford in 1911 Lydia Craggs is still a widower and Lydia ALICE Todd is now Smith with 2 children (no Mr Smith - I wonder if he is a wandering mason like John - lol).

[/quote]

Likely to be Lydia's marriage

Marriages Q3 1901   Salford district  8d 230

BAXTER  Mary   
McCormick  John     
Smith  Patrick     
Todd  Lydia Alice     


Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #70 on: Thursday 08 February 18 15:18 GMT (UK) »
There's a death reg of a Patrick Smith age 32 in Salford district in Q1 1911, could be him.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline John Robertshaw

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #71 on: Monday 12 February 18 20:03 GMT (UK) »
I thought that you might like to see No 3 Victoria Terrace, Luddenden Foot - 1st house on the left - it didn't have the dormer on in Annie's time!
I was brought up in Hebden Bridge - some 4 miles from Luddenden Foot & passed the house hundreds of times. For the first 400 times my mother Olive would point through the bus window as we passed and say "That's where my dad grew up".