Author Topic: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's  (Read 1849 times)

Offline Essnell

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #54 on: Sunday 12 November 17 14:20 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Just checking on Lydia (47) and John Cragg (42) in 1881 Census. They had two Daughters Elizabeth aged 11 and Lydia A aged 9.  John is recorded as a Bank Secretary. 

In 1891 they are still together and Lydia A is now 19.  John is listed a "Banker"  Their Address is 56 Park Hills, Croyden, St Mathews, England. 

In 1881  a Lydia Todd is with William Todd and they have two daughters. Margaret 9 and Lydia A 1 yr old.  William Todd is an InnKeeper. 
Their address is 234 Market Terrace, Wooler, Glendale.

William Todd married Lydia Hobbs 1866 in Dover. Vol 2a Pg 936 March Qtr.  1866. 
William Todd seems to have died in either 1883 June Qtr aged 68, or 1885 Dec Qtr aged 52, in Glendale.

Now a John Craggs marries in 1886 (Jul-Aug-Sept Qtr) in Glendale, Northumberland. Vol. 10 b  pg 517 line 33.   He may have married Lydia Todd. Only one name was shown as a possible spouse.
This marriage is pre Fanny Craggs/Kelly's death in December 1886.

In 1891 they are at 28 Pool Lane, Runcorn,  Northwich and Lydia A has been given the Craggs surame ! :o :-X
Now none of these addresses are the same as what Joseph gave the Army at his enlistment.

The first couple definitely aren't the right ones.

The next lot - the Hobbs-Todd-Craggs saga seems to fit  but that address Joseph gave is elusive. lt has two street names one of which is a lane some distance away. 
 

Have to check Electoral rolls for this ........individual around the 1886 -1889. There should be an address.     It might join up the blots ummm  ... dots. 

Still looking for William here.
     
Thanks again for looking. Fanny still a missing person.     Still don't know where Crabtree fits in either. 
Essnell

 

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Offline Essnell

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #55 on: Thursday 07 December 17 05:31 GMT (UK) »
HI Keyboard86 and LizzieL

For you information: the Marriage Certs have arrived.

John Craggs And Lydia Todd.  year 1886  September 29.  John is 40 yrs of age Lydia 39 yrs.

John is a Bachelor  and Lydia Widow.  John is a Mason , Lydia _____ their residence is Wooler [for both] Northumberland.  John's father is Joseph Craggs - Stone-Cutter  Lydia's father is Richard Hobbs- Farm Steward. 

Witnesses were: Thomas Rowland, Ann Rowland.

He didn't get his son to witness his marriage??? Yet his son was able to affirm that he was not married to Fanny Craggs but his housekeeper?

Why then did Fanny say she was married?? in 1881 and also John CRAGGS  say the same in1881?At Crossroads and why 6 years difference in the age.

NO 2:  Joseph Cragg[ not Craggs]  Clara Airton.

Eleventh September 1916. At Bradford.

Joseph Cragg is 48yrs old, A Bachelor - Wool Comber - 4 Town Lane Lnds, Bradford. Father John Cragg[deceased] -Stone Quarryman.


Clara Airton is 47yrs old, Widow - Occ;_______  6 Sapgate Lane, Thornton Father Joseph Dunham a Tailor and Outfitter(Master)   

Witnesses:  James Cragg       Mary Elizabeth Cragg

I have just heard back also from one of the Yorkshire Archive centers Re Fanny Massey/Kelly Craggs.  the confirmed her name at birth to be Massey, and at Death to be Craggs.

They interpret the "late" on Joseph's Birth Cert that someone named "Kelly" either died or they had been divorced.

They also found the Christening record  for Fanny Massey. Cannot put details here under copyright restrictions.However she was 5years older that otherwise stated.


What do you make of this??

Cheers

Essnell

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Offline LizzieL

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #56 on: Thursday 07 December 17 08:50 GMT (UK) »
Another thought, Joseph Craggs obviously had some contact with his father as his father's address appears on his army records. Maybe his father, having heard of Fanny's death in late Dec 1886 early Jan 1887 needed to have the record put straight (that he and Fanny had never been married) otherwise his marriage to Lydia a few months earlier would appear to be bigamous.

Many unmarried mothers claimed to be married or widowed for appearance sake, so not unreasonable to claim she was married.
John Craggs was living in lodgings in 1881, maybe his landlord assumed he was married, or he had arrived with Fanny and children sometime earlier and she had left by census day.
The problem with censuses is that they are just a one day snapshot, Fanny and John might have separated years before the 1881 census or just months or days.
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Online keyboard86

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #57 on: Friday 08 December 17 18:27 GMT (UK) »
Hi again Essnell, ( Re your PM) I had that baptism a long time ago re Fanny Massey, but it was the age difference throughout that made me not post, this appears to be her in 1841 census:-

William Massey 45 occ Ag Lab
Sarah 45
Mary 14
Hannah 11
FANNY 8
William 6
Samuel 2
Residing Church Street, Kirby in Ashfield, Basford
Census ref HO107/858/ 3/17 / 26

Fanny aged 19 b Kirby in Ashfield is a Nurse in a household in Kirby in Ashfield
1851 census ref HO107/2125/49/23

The Annie Massey baptism you show in Bolton le Moors on the GRO Index shows as no mothers maiden name Sept qtr 1873 8c 400
Keyboard86
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

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Offline Essnell

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #58 on: Saturday 09 December 17 04:44 GMT (UK) »
Hi Keyboard 86

I'll try to follow up on Fanny after shw was 19 - see if I can find a link to either Kelly or Craggs


Re Annie I'll try to get a copy of the christening record. and one for the Birth record. She may be the Annie who has not been traced to a birth Cert yet.

Let you know what I find.

Cheers       Essnell

Online keyboard86

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #59 on: Saturday 09 December 17 17:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi again, Essnell, would hold off purchasing the birth certificate of Annie Massey 1873 Bolton for two reasons, in both 1881 and 1891 census she is shown as born Yorkshire/Sheffield?
Also if Joseph b 1870 was born as a Craggs/Cragg why the sudden change back to her maiden name for Annie?
Keyboard86

PS and their is also a death for an Ann Massey Dec qtr 1873 Bolton 8c 250 aged 0
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Essnell

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Re: Looking for relatives of Jabez Crabtree Bingley Uk1880's
« Reply #60 on: Monday 11 December 17 00:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi   Keyboard 86,

Ok . Strange how nothing fits!    Those birth place statements are so varied. 

I have found a William Cragg boarding  with Liddemore Family  1891. Birthplace Bingley  on that census.  In reality he was born up near Hawes and registered at Aysgarth.  William or the Liddemores did not know any better.

I'll just file this and see what else turns up.  It was not a birth Reg. just Christening Record.  Annie may well have been born anywhere and just christened there with no John present.  who knows.

I was not searching Annie - it came up through Fanny Massey    ODD.

Essnell