Author Topic: Can anyone help identify this coat of arms? I think it's Spanish.  (Read 692 times)

Offline andyabel

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Can anyone help identify this coat of arms? I think it's Spanish.
« on: Tuesday 24 October 17 03:12 BST (UK) »
Can anyone help identify this coat of arms? I think it's Spanish.
The Castle and Lion Rampant are in the coat of arms of Spain, but I can't identify the other two quadrants. The colours are red, blue, gold and white (the image is a little faded).
Any pointers would help.
Thanks

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline KGarrad

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,497
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone help identify this coat of arms? I think it's Spanish.
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 24 October 17 09:31 BST (UK) »
In the Spanish National Arms, the lion is purple on white, and the castle is gold on red.
The vertical bars are reminiscent of Catalonia - but they are just gold and red; yours look like white, gold and red?

The first quarter ought to be easier to find, but I haven't found anything yet?!
It would be described as per saltire, or quarterly per saltire, or party per saltire.

Can you place this in context? Where does your picture come from?
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline andyabel

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone help identify this coat of arms? I think it's Spanish.
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 24 October 17 18:18 BST (UK) »
An elderly friend in Southern California has a large wooden coffee table with two identical El Cid Tizona swords and two identical coats of arms under glass. She was given the table and knows nothing of it's origin. The table itself was probably made sometime in the last 100 years, but I'm trying to figure out if the swords and coat of arms are older, or whether they're recent replicas. They look old.

Offline KGarrad

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,497
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone help identify this coat of arms? I think it's Spanish.
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 24 October 17 20:45 BST (UK) »
Spanish coats-of-arms rarely include helmets on top of them - that is more an English thing?
Moreover the helmet in your picture looks to me like that of a duke, marquessate, earl, viscount or baron (in English heraldry)?
They should  be composed of silver or polished steel, with five gold bars, and lined with crimson. According to some authorities they should be placed neither affronty nor in profile, but between those positions.

Yours is lined with green - with makes me think that maybe it was re-painted at some time?
Also, some of the colours are wrong (again from an English Heraldry point-of-view). White/silver should almost never be next to yellow/gold?

I looked at a catalogue of Spanish Arms, and while I did find 8 (or so!) arms per saltire, none of them were like yours in the 1st quarter.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline andyabel

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone help identify this coat of arms? I think it's Spanish.
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 24 October 17 21:39 BST (UK) »
Thanks. Yes, it's a bit of a puzzle. It might indicate it's fake, but there might be other reasons for the wrong colours.

Offline KGarrad

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,497
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone help identify this coat of arms? I think it's Spanish.
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 24 October 17 21:44 BST (UK) »
Maybe you could look through this site?
http://www.cafepress.com/familycoats2/3450997
I think they want to sell you some garbage, but maybe you can find one of the arms quartered on your coat-of-arms?

On the other hand, maybe it's Mexican? ;D
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline andyabel

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone help identify this coat of arms? I think it's Spanish.
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 24 October 17 21:56 BST (UK) »
Thanks. I'll check those out. Yes, it might help.
BTW: I think the vertical bars in the top-left and bottom-right quadrants are intended to be red-and-white only (the gold is just the background).

Offline KGarrad

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,497
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone help identify this coat of arms? I think it's Spanish.
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 24 October 17 22:59 BST (UK) »
Red and yellow/gold bars would be more in keeping of Spanish?
That being the arms of the Crown of Aragon and the Principality of Catalonia.

A purple lion on white/silver = Kingdom of Leon
A gold triple-turreted castle on red = Kingdom of Castile

So, there are similarities to Spanish kingdoms etc, but differences, too.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline davidbappleton

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone help identify this coat of arms? I think it's Spanish.
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 25 October 17 20:23 BST (UK) »
Yes, it's a bit of a mess. It's not a real coat of arms; it looks like something designed to be reminiscent of real arms (in this case, Spain) without actually being those arms.

The colors are all wrong, and the arrangement of the quarters is inaccurate for the arms of Spain, but the design is: the upper left quarter is Aragon and the Two Sicilies; the upper right quarter is Leon; the lower left quarter is Castile; the lower right quarter is Aragon; and the oval inescutcheon is the House of Bourbon, Anjou branch.

You can see an illustrated article about the coat of arms of Spain and its historical development on Wikipedia at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Spain.

David