Author Topic: Help with a family member? I'm entirely stuck. Lanark/Wigtown  (Read 2428 times)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Help with a family member? I'm entirely stuck. Lanark/Wigtown
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 25 October 17 09:55 BST (UK) »
http://news.rootsweb.com/th/read/SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE/2003-08/1061146182
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That does look OK. I take it that WFP is 'Wigtown  Free Press' and that this list is from someone who has helpfully transcribed the births, marriages and deaths from one or more issues of that paper. Ideally you want to check it by having a look at an image of the original page.

Having said that, I note that the transcriptions are from the issue of 9 February 1843, and that this one reads, "At Genoch, parish of Old Luce, on the 17th instant, by the Rev. Mr M'Dowall, Mr John Wilson to Miss Margaret Muir.".

This rings alarm bells because 'inst' means 'this month' and the 17th February had not yet happened by the 9th February. If it was 17th January it should have been 'ult'.

Also it names them as 'Mr' and 'Miss'. The use of the titles, and publication in the newspaper, implies that they were people of some standing in the community. Yet the date of baptism of their son James was 20th March - just six weeks after the wedding announcement.

Why would someone of standing in the community announce to the whole world and posterity the evidence that the bride was heavily pregnant at the time of her wedding? It's the sort of thing people would normally have tried to hush up in those days.

Quote
Also, those dates for James and Margaret, the children, are the same things that I have.
Yes, they are from SP so are reliable.

Quote
Do you have any thoughts on how to move forward? You seem really well versed in all of this and I really value your help/input!!
I do think you seem to have made quite a lot of assumptions from known to presumed information.

Quote
That being said, I saw a family tree premade on ancestry and he was listed as James Muir Wilson.
Never, ever, trust anything you find online unless it's an image of an original document. Especially pre-made trees uploaded to Ancestry and similar sites. You have no idea how meticulous or how sloppy the research behind those trees is. By all means use them as pointers, but don't assume thay are accurate, because very often they are not.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

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Offline HermitCedar

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Re: Help with a family member? I'm entirely stuck. Lanark/Wigtown
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 25 October 17 13:26 BST (UK) »
Quote
Now, again, I know that James Wilson was married to Mary Bann, so I found their wedding cert. James's father is listed as John Wilson on that document.

Marriage 1868 Liverpool - not Scotland.  Father's occ was "agent"

Sorry - but your method of researching James is unsafe to say the least.

Quote
I discovered that his wife's name was Mary. I did some digging, and I thought I found the right marriage cert, which listed her maiden name as Bann.

Are you saying this was also guesswork rather than fact?

Which of James children are you descended from?  It's usual to find a birth registration for that child and confirm the mothers maiden name before looking for a parental marriage.  Particularly as Wilson is rather a common surname in England.

You have absolutely no proof that James was born in Wigtown.  There is an 1871 entry for a James & Mary Wilson - James b 1843 Scotland and living in Liverpool. He has a 14yr old brother David Wilson b Wakefield Yorkshire living with him and he also has children born before 1868 so a different marriage

GRO online search show David's mothers maiden name was Ferguson

Births March qtr 1856 
David    Wilson    Wakefield    9c   21

1881 shows the first Wilson/Bann child was Sarah b 1872 but 1871 has a James aged 2

So we have 2 James Wilson's both born Scotland 1843/44 and both married to a Mary and living in Liverpool.  Which one are you descended from?

Hi again! Thank you for bearing with me - this is the first time I've taken my tree back this far so it's hard for me and I don't know how/what to consider as fact.

Okay, so... the James Wilson, whichever one it is, had a son named Thomas Wilson. Thomas Wilson is my great-great grandfather. Thomas Wilson had a son named James J Wilson (my great grandfather)...

I found on James J Wilson's wedding cert that his father was Thomas Wilson, so I searched for a James J Wilson born on the right date to a Thomas Wilson in Liverpool (Where I know him to be from) and there was only one.

Then, on Thomas Wilson's wedding cert, I saw that this father's name is James Wilson (the one we are talking about above, the one I thought was born in Wigtown).

So, I searched through the censuses until I found a Thomas Wilson born in Liverpool to a James Wilson, and I only found one relevant with dates. That is in the 1881 England Census, which shows a Thomas A Wilson of the right age, born to James Wilson who was born in Scotland.

So, that's how I got to where I am.

I do apologize if my methods aren't up to snuff - still new at this! Thanks so much for the help!

Out of the 2 James that we are looking at, I don't know how to figure out which one I am related to. Both are James and Mary Wilson, with a son Thomas Wilson. One is just listed as born in Scotland, and one is listed as born in Glasgow. This is for the 1881 England Census of folks living in Liverpool.

The difference between the 2 James and Mary Wilson families....

One has Thomas Wilson and one has Thomas A Wilson.

I have NO IDEA how to figure out which one I should go with.

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Offline HermitCedar

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Re: Help with a family member? I'm entirely stuck. Lanark/Wigtown
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 25 October 17 13:31 BST (UK) »
http://news.rootsweb.com/th/read/SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE/2003-08/1061146182
Family Search
That does look OK. I take it that WFP is 'Wigtown  Free Press' and that this list is from someone who has helpfully transcribed the births, marriages and deaths from one or more issues of that paper. Ideally you want to check it by having a look at an image of the original page.

Having said that, I note that the transcriptions are from the issue of 9 February 1843, and that this one reads, "At Genoch, parish of Old Luce, on the 17th instant, by the Rev. Mr M'Dowall, Mr John Wilson to Miss Margaret Muir.".

This rings alarm bells because 'inst' means 'this month' and the 17th February had not yet happened by the 9th February. If it was 17th January it should have been 'ult'.

Also it names them as 'Mr' and 'Miss'. The use of the titles, and publication in the newspaper, implies that they were people of some standing in the community. Yet the date of baptism of their son James was 20th March - just six weeks after the wedding announcement.

Why would someone of standing in the community announce to the whole world and posterity the evidence that the bride was heavily pregnant at the time of her wedding? It's the sort of thing people would normally have tried to hush up in those days.

Quote
Also, those dates for James and Margaret, the children, are the same things that I have.
Yes, they are from SP so are reliable.

Quote
Do you have any thoughts on how to move forward? You seem really well versed in all of this and I really value your help/input!!
I do think you seem to have made quite a lot of assumptions from known to presumed information.

Quote
That being said, I saw a family tree premade on ancestry and he was listed as James Muir Wilson.
Never, ever, trust anything you find online unless it's an image of an original document. Especially pre-made trees uploaded to Ancestry and similar sites. You have no idea how meticulous or how sloppy the research behind those trees is. By all means use them as pointers, but don't assume thay are accurate, because very often they are not.

I am completely stuck on how to move forward - I guess I may not know enough about Genealogy to really be able to do this correctly. Urgh. 

Offline HermitCedar

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Re: Help with a family member? I'm entirely stuck. Lanark/Wigtown
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 25 October 17 15:16 BST (UK) »


I have NO IDEA AT ALL how to figure out which James Wilson it is. At least there are only 2 to pick from. Does anyone have any ideas I can use to narrow down my selection?

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Help with a family member? I'm entirely stuck. Lanark/Wigtown
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 25 October 17 17:33 BST (UK) »
Let's start with James J Wilson. Where and when did he marry, how old did the marriage certificate say he was, and what was the name of his wife? What was the occupation of his father Thomas Wilson?
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline HermitCedar

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Re: Help with a family member? I'm entirely stuck. Lanark/Wigtown
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 25 October 17 17:54 BST (UK) »
Let's start with James J Wilson. Where and when did he marry, how old did the marriage certificate say he was, and what was the name of his wife? What was the occupation of his father Thomas Wilson?

Sure, thank you!

James J Wilson (James Joseph Wilson, I believe) was born on 17 Dec 1899 in Liverpool. He was married in 1918 in Lancashire to Margaret Florence Wearn (sometimes spelled Wearne). This wedding was performed at St Athanasius in Kirkdale, Liverpool.

I have a print of his marriage cert at home, so when I get back from the office I can check for his fathers profession. His father is, for sure, Thomas Wilson though. I can also check the age when I get home.

One thing to note - in a lot of sources it shows his birth year as 1900. It took me a bit to figure out this isn't true. He was born 17 Dec 1899, but was not registered until 1900.

Thank you for all of your help! I can add those details as soon as I get home.

Offline isobelw

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Re: Help with a family member? I'm entirely stuck. Lanark/Wigtown
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 25 October 17 18:51 BST (UK) »
James Joseph Wilson born Dec 1899 has mother's maiden name James. There is a marriage in 1898 in West Derby between Thomas Wilson and Mary Jane James. Family in 1901 shows Thomas as a public House Manager age 27 born Liverpool with wife Mary and son James age 1. The baptism of James Joseph, son of Thomas and Mary, in 1900 gives his father's occupation as Waiter. There appear to be two other children of this couple - Frederick Alexander 1902 West Derby and Harold 1903 West Derby ( baptism says father Thomas was a Tobacconist.)Harold died in 1905. Both James Joseph and Frederick Alexander can be found in the last available census showing as stepsons of George and Jane Whitfield.
Are you confident that you link to the James Joseph Wilson born Dec 1899 died 1972 Liverpool?
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Offline isobelw

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Re: Help with a family member? I'm entirely stuck. Lanark/Wigtown
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 25 October 17 19:03 BST (UK) »
From the 1939 register it would appear the 1899 James Joseph was married to a Bessie nee Jones. Perhaps this is not your James after all?
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Offline isobelw

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Re: Help with a family member? I'm entirely stuck. Lanark/Wigtown
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 25 October 17 19:39 BST (UK) »
I have found James Wilson and Margaret nee Wearn on the 1939 register and according to that he was born in 1888. Do you know for sure that this is the James that you are descended from?
Isobel
Clotworthy, McMahon, Saunderson, Culley (Ireland & Scotland)
Weatherall, Greer (Ireland & Scotland)
Hamilton, Johnston, Dawson, Rennie, Wright (Clackmannanshire)