Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross

[louisa maud]

There is a family of
Mary Ann  Shave who appears to be in Marylebone workhouse Oct 1860

Mary Ann Shave aged 29
Maria 9
Richard 6
Elizabeth 1month

shows children illegitimate BUT are they the children of John Ransome and Mary Ann   Watts who married 1845

Richard born 1854
Maria born 1851 showing MMN Watts
no trace Elizabeth so far

There is John Shave death showing 1850 Kensington/Paddington and Fulham

LM

[littlesis 76]

So after having a break from Ancestry for a little while I was contacted by a lady who believed her husband was possibly related to Harriet and Walter Shave
After a few messages and a link to this thread she came up with possibly Harriet Bailey and Martina were not the same person and Harriet gave her youngest to Martina after being widowed
She had found a 1901 census with a lady living with a family ,no first name but surname Shave and she has a 3 yr old daughter also Shave .I have just checked GRO index and a Jenny Shave was born in Hendon and mothers maiden is Bailey is this a huge coincidence  or does the mystery carry on
I cancelled my subscription but think I might have to subscribe again

[littlesis 76]

Just thought I would update ppl who help me with this
It turns out Martina and Harriet weren't the same lady.It now looks like Harriet gave her daughter to Martina Morris
In 1901 I believe Harriet is on census just as Shave with a daughter aged 3 ,there is a marriage in 1904 between a Harriet Shave and a Michael Donoghue.

They are in the 1911 census with a 13 yr old and several younger children and on GRO index the child are reg mothers maiden name not Shave but Bailey .
So I think it's safe to say Harriet Donoghue  is my Harriet
Now I have to find out who this Martina was and who she was to Harriet ,is she the Italian that the family spoke off
Thank you for your help.!

[louisa maud]

Good result then

Louisa Maud

[elizirvshaw]

Can you tell me where you found the marriage record for Harriet Shave and Michael Donoghue? My initial search on ancestry doesn't find it.

[louisa maud]

I  you will find the Donaghue/Shave marriage listed on freebmd's, I can't find it on Ancestry as yet
1904 Marylebone

Louisa Maud

[littlesis 76]

Hi ,In am just looking for more advice
Having looked at Martina's ( the daughter) birth cert in 1892 it gives a address as 52,Messina Avenue London
In 1891 same address living is a Martina Barwaw aged 22 living by her own means and born Fitzroy Sq,London.

How do I find anymore on this lady or address as I can't find anything in ance***.

I think she was the mother but she had Harriet register the birth .

Someone from the Shave side has research the family a lot and she doesn't think that Martina belongs to the Shaves and I think I agree

Few reasons for thinking that are all of Walter & Harriet other children were  reg and the parents had no middle names where as on  Martina birth cert they have middle names of Martina and Benedict.
All Walter & Harriet's children were baptised and Martina was not
Walter died of a syphilis type disease which he had had for 3 years
Martina birth was reg at the address Martina Barwaw was living and not Harriet and Walter

I need to find any more info on Martina Barwaw although I think it may be a typo error on the census in 1891
I have never come across a more complicated family and I have done some strange ones 

[louisa maud]

Now, I might be completely barking up the wrong tree, BUT 1891 shows
Martina Ross aged 32 dress maker
Martina E aged 8 reg as Martina E Shave MMN  Bailey
Murcia aged 2 reg as Ross MMN Morris
Felicitas aged 11 months reg as Ross MMN Morris
Checked births and MMN

1871 RG10/221 FOLIO 110 PAGE 4
Roman Catholic School as scholars
Mary Ross aged 11 n/t so far
Martina Ross aged 7, poss MMN  Breen

I have not checked over all of the previous messages so I might be wrong

Louisa Maud

[louisa maud]

What about Edward A Ross born 1921 Hampstead MMN Ross?

Murcia S Ross appears to have married Hugh Hadley 1925

LM
Might be treading on old ground here