Author Topic: Brocks from Hamilton James Ann and Mary a quandry  (Read 835 times)

Offline isobelw

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Re: Brocks from Hamilton James Ann and Mary a quandry
« Reply #18 on: Friday 27 October 17 20:39 BST (UK) »
Thanks, sorry to be so frustrating I am just trying to get my head around this.  I will look at the certificates you suggest I do have a death certificvate for James that I thought was him with a son Alexander signing.
But James Brock and Ann McCartney didn't have a (recorded) son named Alexander.

Quote
I need to track down John Brock listed on the 1841 census with James & Mary's children.
Why? Isobel has already found that he married Barbara Forrest in 1845, emigrated to Canada and died in Huron Ontario.

Which of all these Brocks is your ancestor?
John Brock age 32 born Hamilton is living with James and Mary in 1851, listed as their son. I haven't actually found a marriage to Barbara Forrest but the first of their children was born about 1853 in Hamilton. They had twins in 1855 ( checking that certificate would provide date of marriage plus confirm place of birth of John).
Isobel
Clotworthy, McMahon, Saunderson, Culley (Ireland & Scotland)
Weatherall, Greer (Ireland & Scotland)
Hamilton, Johnston, Dawson, Rennie, Wright (Clackmannanshire)

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Offline Forfarian

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Re: Brocks from Hamilton James Ann and Mary a quandry
« Reply #19 on: Friday 27 October 17 20:53 BST (UK) »
Fair enough. It just seemed that it was very hard to convince the OP that Mary/Margery/Marjorie Fletcher's husband was not previously married to Ann McCartney.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

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Offline BronwenS

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Re: Brocks from Hamilton James Ann and Mary a quandry
« Reply #20 on: Friday 27 October 17 21:06 BST (UK) »
No Forfarian I appreciate your work but just need to understand it and if possible find out where John comes in.
Campbell, McKenzie, Ross, MacKay, Munro, Sutherland all of Ross & Comarty
Barry, Gibson, Watson, Summers, Edmonstone, Brock, McCartney all of Glasgow and environs
Erskine, Fletcher of Edinburgh

Offline BronwenS

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Re: Brocks from Hamilton James Ann and Mary a quandry
« Reply #21 on: Friday 27 October 17 21:08 BST (UK) »
But James Brock and Ann McCartney didn't have a (recorded) son named Alexander.
James & Mary have a son called Alexander

1841 Lamb St, Gorbals, Hamilton -
You need to look at the original of this. Gorbals is a parish in Glasgow, and Hamilton is a parish elsewhere in Lanarkshire. They are mutually exclusive; a place in Gorbals cannot be in Hamilton, and a place in Hamilton cannot be in Gorbals. 

Okay I did try to sort out the Gorbals and Hamilton. 
I assume you mean I will need to purchase the original which will have more information?

'I need to track down John Brock listed on the 1841and 1851 census with James & Mary's children.'
Because he is on the 1841 and '51 census and presumably is James or Mary's child or a relative and I would like that information.  I am following James and Mary's child Jane who married John Summers as Isobel says.  So no I don't need any more information about James & Mary.

I see Isobel has said that John Brock age 32 born Hamilton is living with James and Mary in 1841 and 1851, although I am not sure it actually says he is their son as Isobel  says, I think  that might be an assumption made.

Thanks Isobel I will look into this: John Brock age 32 born Hamilton ....I haven't actually found a marriage to Barbara Forrest but the first of their children was born about 1853 in Hamilton. They had twins in 1855 ( checking that certificate would provide date of marriage plus confirm place of birth of John)

Thanks to both of you for all your help.  Bronwen
Campbell, McKenzie, Ross, MacKay, Munro, Sutherland all of Ross & Comarty
Barry, Gibson, Watson, Summers, Edmonstone, Brock, McCartney all of Glasgow and environs
Erskine, Fletcher of Edinburgh

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Brocks from Hamilton James Ann and Mary a quandry
« Reply #22 on: Friday 27 October 17 21:18 BST (UK) »
That's fine. It certainly seems that there is no surviving record of the baptism of the John Brock born in Hamilton about 1818-1819.

At least you can discount the James Brock/Ann McCartney family as irrelevant.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline isobelw

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Re: Brocks from Hamilton James Ann and Mary a quandry
« Reply #23 on: Friday 27 October 17 21:29 BST (UK) »
The 1841 census does not show family relationships, however in 1851 John Brock age 32 born Hamilton is listed at 23 Quarry Rd Hamilton with James and Mary Brock, described as son. It would seem likely this is the same John that is listed with James and Meady in 1841 age 22. In 1861 John Brock age 42 born Hamilton is living at 37 Society Street, Barony, Glasgow with wife Barbara and several children. By 1871 the family are in Canada.
Clotworthy, McMahon, Saunderson, Culley (Ireland & Scotland)
Weatherall, Greer (Ireland & Scotland)
Hamilton, Johnston, Dawson, Rennie, Wright (Clackmannanshire)

Offline BronwenS

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Re: Brocks from Hamilton James Ann and Mary a quandry
« Reply #24 on: Friday 27 October 17 21:52 BST (UK) »
Yes apologies Isobel I just had another look at that - attached.
So presumably the son of one of them.

Interstingly in the 1841 census there is an Elizabeth Reid living with the Brocks ( see attached). 
Jane brock and John Summers had a daughter with the middle name Reid.
1867-1901 July 7th Elizabeth Reid Summers (Shaw) Glasgow St John, Lanarkshire, Scotland
and way back - although I haven't confirmed this yet there was a Reid.
BROCK JAMES WALTER BROCK/ISOBEL REID FR548 (FR548)   M25/11/1766 647/30 65 Hamilton

I have indeed discunted James & Ann (sorry put the wrong name earlier).

cheers Bronwen
Campbell, McKenzie, Ross, MacKay, Munro, Sutherland all of Ross & Comarty
Barry, Gibson, Watson, Summers, Edmonstone, Brock, McCartney all of Glasgow and environs
Erskine, Fletcher of Edinburgh