Author Topic: Who were Betsy Derham's parents?  (Read 627 times)

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Who were Betsy Derham's parents?
« Reply #9 on: Monday 30 October 17 12:16 GMT (UK) »
Thank you very much, confirms my suspicion that Michael was in the army.
But I am wondering how he fits into my family - if he does.
John Derham, his wife Mary came to Christchurch from Morden Dorset with their older children then had a few more in Christchurch. All the Christchurch Derhams, that I have so far found (except Owen Derham's family but they came much later) can be traced back to John and Mary and their children.

All the records for Michael and his family in Christchurch have the name spelt Derham. (Jane on census in 1841, Jane's death record, Betsy's and Mary Ann's marriage records and mother's maiden name on GRO index for Betsy's last child and all three of Mary Ann's) But any record outside Christchurch has the name spelt Durham.

If only a marriage for Michael and Jane would turn up.
According to 1841 census and death reg we know Jane was born in Hampshire in approx  1776.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

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Offline bearkat

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Re: Who were Betsy Derham's parents?
« Reply #10 on: Monday 30 October 17 14:44 GMT (UK) »
Just to throw my tuppence in

Michael has been a common name in England post war.

In my experience Michaels found in early records tend to be of irish origin.
Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD, WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING
Kent - BAYLY, BORER, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT, IDEN
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Herts - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
 All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline LizzieL

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Re: Who were Betsy Derham's parents?
« Reply #11 on: Monday 30 October 17 14:53 GMT (UK) »
I was wondering about Ireland as all the records I have found for Michael Derhams seem to be Irish or Lancashire where a lot of Irish migrated to. I have not found any connection between the Irish Derhams and mine in West Hants / East Dorset or to the Derhams around North Curry, Somerset.

I suppose a Derham from Ireland could have joined the army and be posted to Winchester, married a Hampshire girl, then been posted to Woolwich, died somewhere unknown and his widow with two daughters happened to go to Christchurch where there was, coincidentally, another family group with the same, not particularly common, surname
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline Daisypetal

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Re: Who were Betsy Derham's parents?
« Reply #12 on: Monday 30 October 17 20:17 GMT (UK) »

There was an Artillery Barracks at Christchurch (built 1792) so Michael could have been stationed there after being in Woolwich. His unit could have been sent America or to Europe, we were fighting all over the place in the early 1800s.

I can see that there are DURHAMs living Morden and other places in Dorset, also some in Hampshire and on the Isle of Wight, but I can't find Michael.


Here are some possible Army records at the NA but I don't know how much info they would have.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13458566

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13456653

Jane would have been about 32 when she had Michael Jun. in 1808 so maybe there are other children somewhere else or she could have been a widow when she married Michael Sen.

I think the different spelling of DERHAM and DURHAM is not a sign that they are different families, because many people couldn't read or write the surname would be written down however the person writing the record thought it was spelt. As time went on and literacy improved people would begin to keep the same spelling that the first learnt.

I have a family that spell their surname in at least three different ways :)

All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: Who were Betsy Derham's parents?
« Reply #13 on: Monday 30 October 17 22:00 GMT (UK) »
some other potential baptisms, not that far away - some may be too early though?  On all these four Michael is a mariner

St Paul, Deptford, Lewisham, Kent    
Bartholomew Durham    Baptism    30 Jul 1786    
Jane Maria Durham    Baptism    15 Mar 1789    

St Nicholas, Deptford, Greenwich, kent
Wm John Derham    Baptism    17 Nov 1793    
Margaret Eliz Derham    Baptism    5 Feb 1796    


Also if someone can access it may be worth looking at this in the Chelsea Pensioner records, in case the age is incorrect (service dates don;t fit it!)

Michael Durham age 74, b Sheffield, service in Royal Horse Artillery 1800-1816

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Who were Betsy Derham's parents?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 31 October 17 13:47 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all for your suggestions.

Looking at Elizabeth (Betsy's ) baptism in Woolwich where it gives father's occupation, it just says gunner in the Artillery, whereas some occupations are recorded as being in the Horse Artillery, so I'm wondering if Michael was in what became Field or Garrison Artillery.

The Michael Durham in the HA born Sheffield is age 41 on the record. It gives 28 Mar 1826 as date of admission. But there is a note to say "pensioned at 5d per day 4 Apr 1816, increased to 1/0 Boards Order 4 Aug 1826 from 26 March".
Not sure if it means he was 41 when he starting getting the lower pension in 1816 or when it was increased in 1826. Dob could be 1775 or 1785.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate