Anyone fancy a challenge?

[giblet]

There was another son and he died in the war.

Lance Corporal
SMITH, SIDNEY ALFRED
Service Number 20020
Died 31/07/1917
Aged 24
6th Bn.
Royal Berkshire Regiment
Son of Emma Smith, of 208, Southampton St., Reading.

[giblet]

I cant find a birth for Sam / Samuel but found this.

Name   Sidney Alfred Smith
Residence    Reading, Berkshire, England
Christening Date   02 Mar 1893
Christening Place   St. Marys, Reading, Berkshire, England
Birth Date   30 Jan 1893
Father's Name   Edmund Smith
Mother's Name     Emma Smith

[giblet]

Deaths Jun 1911   
Smith    Edmund    53    Reading    2c   213

Burial index FindMyPast
Edmund   Smith   Birth year  1858    Death year  1911   Reading

[giblet]

I dont have access to 1911 census, can someone help please? I still cant find a birth for Sam, im wondering if he was born before his mother married so maybe registered under her maiden name or another name if she was married before??

Father  Edmund
Mother Emma

Edmund
George
Sidney
and hopefully Sam / Samuel

[newburychap]

Hi, I searched the address online and came up with this article with 4 photos of prisoners of war, one entitled "PRISONERS AT DOEBERITZ. One of the men in this group is the son of Mrs. Smith, 208, Southampton St., Reading."

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kyk/

The photo that started me off is another one from Berkshire and the War - which clearly identifies which of the men he is.  In this one he could be the one seated, second from left.

[candrjm]

Maybe a possibility??

Marriage:
HARTE    Emma Elizabeth        Reading    2c   607    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Maycock    Edwin Richard         Reading    2c   607   
PAICE    Annie Ethel         Reading    2c   607   
PAIGE    Annie Ethel         Reading    2c   607    
Smith    Edmund         Reading    2c   607<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Possibly Emma Elizabeth's surname mistakenly recorded as Harte instead of Start.

Here with her parents in 1871:

RG10/2031/176
Uplyme, Devonshire

George Start Head 40    Musbury, Devonshire
Jemima Start Wife 37    Uplyme, Devonshire
Emma Start Daughter 12 Uplyme, Devonshire<<<<<<<<<<
Emily Start    Daughter 10 Uplyme, Devonshire
Elizabeth Start Daughter 8    Uplyme, Devonshire
Ann Start    Daughter 6    Uplyme, Devonshire
George Start Son 4 Uplyme, Devonshire
Alfred Start Son 0 Uplyme, Devonshire

Her parents marriage:

Marriages Mar qtr 1858   
George Start & Jemima Start Axminster    5b   23   

Emma Elizabeth's birth:

START, EMMA  ELIZABETH      mothers maiden name SANSOM        
GRO Reference: 1858  D Quarter in AXMINSTER  Volume 05B  Page 1

Smith Family in the 1891 census:
RG12/992/81 p 10
Wolseley Street Reading   

Edmund Smith Head 32    b Reading, Berkshire, Bricklayer's labourer
Emma Smith Wife    32 Lyme Regis, Dorsetshire
Wm Hy Smith Son 9    Reading, Berkshire *******************
Emily L Smith Daughter 5 Reading, Berkshire
Edmund V SmithSon 3 Reading, Berkshire
Geo Smith    Son 1 Reading, Berkshire
Bessie Smith Sister 26    Lyme Regis, Dorsetshire


*******************Note: William Henry born before the marriage

Birth reg:
STARTE, WILLIAM  HENRY      - (no maiden name entered)      
1882  Jun Quarter READING  Volume 02C  Page 363

SMITH, EMILY  LOUISE      mothers maiden name START      
1885  Dec Quarter  READING  Volume 02C  Page 349

SMITH, EDMUND  VICTOR      mothers maiden name START      
1887  Sep Quarter  READING  Volume 02C  Page 353


This looks like Emma in 1881:

Reading St Mary, Berkshire, England
Coley Hill<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
RG11/1301/74 p 12
Emma Start 24 b Devon Domestic servant

So could the W Start in the list of Newbury Postmen that you mention be the illegitimate sone of Emma Elizabeth Smith (nee Start).

Family search have this for William Henry Starte which records him as a postman(3rd one down):

https://tinyurl.com/y7bm46l8  (note where born)

Death for him:

Deaths Dec 1939 
Starte    William H    57    Newbury    2c   671

Kind Regards
Chris

[newburychap]

Reading Mercury - Saturday 28 January 1939

The Head postmaster of Reading yesterday [Friday] presented the Imperial Service Medal and parchment to Mr Sam Smith, of 31 Palmerstone Road, Early, who retired from his duties as postman on Dec. 24th. Mr Smith who retired for reasons of health had completed over thirty - seven years in the service of the state. He commenced his duties as a postman in Reading in Nov. 1909 and before that he served in the army from January 1901 to August 1909. He was recalled to colours in August 1914, and remained in active service until March 1919., when he left the army with the rank of company-sergeant-major. During his 29 years service in the post office he discharged his duties with zeal and ability and he was a great favourite with his colleagues. He would have retired in the ordinary course of events four years hence.

He certainly a possibility, but there are niggling issues.

The photo: https://www.berkshirestories.org.uk/archive/books/berkshire-and-the-war-the-reading-standard-1916-1919/berkshire-and-the-war-the-reading-standard-volume-3/131569-berkshire-and-the-war-the-reading-standard-pictorial-record-volume-3-p-625

The caption reads: The centre man sitting is the son of Mrs Smith, 208, Southampton Street, Reading. He served all through the Boer War and after twelve year's service as a postman at Newbury enlisted for the present war, being captured in September 1914.

Sam Smith did not serve all through the Boer War, doesn't seem to have been a Newbury postie, didn't do 12 years with the PO pre-war, and a POW is unlikely to rise to CSM.  And, as shown, he was not the son of Emma Smith of 208 Southampton St.

Emma Smith did have a son William Henry, who was not with the family in 1901 (typical of Boer War veterans). No obvious 1911 entry.

There is a picture of Sidney Smith of 208 Southampton St in Berkshire at War (p525) - the caption notes that his brother is a POW.  So I'm getting really interested in William Henry, the only brother old enough (just about) to have served all through the Boer War.

[newburychap]

Maybe a possibility??
 .....

Family search have this for William Henry Starte which records him as a postman(3rd one down):

https://tinyurl.com/y7bm46l8  (note where born)

Kind Regards
Chris

William Henry Start looks a strong possibility - need to look at Boer War records.

[Jool]

Good finds Chris!  I was just looking at William Henry as he is the only son of Emma Smith who is old enough to have served in the Boer War.

His birth reg is on the GRO site, with a dash where the mother's maiden name should be - suggesting a possible illegitimate birth.

STARTE, WILLIAM  HENRY  -
GRO Reference: 1882  J Quarter in READING  Volume 02C  Page 363