Author Topic: A Baptism for John MILES c.1830 in Widcombe, near Bath  (Read 961 times)

Offline Keith Sherwood

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Re: A Baptism for John MILES c.1830 in Widcombe, near Bath
« Reply #9 on: Monday 30 October 17 22:54 GMT (UK) »
David,
I'll just answer that last question you posed, and my response is that - yes - my direct ancestor John Charles MILES is the individual who married Elizabeth UPTON and went to live in Eastbourne..
I need to have a little think about some of the other points you raise in your last post.  I'll be in contact again tomorrow - many thanks again for all your input here.
Regards, Keith

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Offline DRH123

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Re: A Baptism for John MILES c.1830 in Widcombe, near Bath
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 31 October 17 00:20 GMT (UK) »
Then I think there's no doubt that James and Sarah were his parents. By the 1861 census they had also moved to Birmingham. There may possibly have been two James and Sarahs in Bath - there seem to have been a lot of Miles - but there can't have been two such couples which both had the husband born in Cheltenham the wife in Bath and a connection with Birmingham.

David

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Offline Keith Sherwood

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Re: A Baptism for John MILES c.1830 in Widcombe, near Bath
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 31 October 17 11:10 GMT (UK) »
Morning, David,
Have had time to ponder all that you have unearthed for me.  There's a lady in Australia, a second cousin - we both share a common gt-grandmother in Hannah (Annie) MILES - and she's probably done rather more research into this line than I have so far.  But she's always found our gt-gt-gt-grandpa James MILES, the one who says he was born in Cheltenham, a painter, very elusive.  I/we must get hot on his trail - if indeed it has not grown too cold already...
Keith

Offline DRH123

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Re: A Baptism for John MILES c.1830 in Widcombe, near Bath
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 01 November 17 19:20 GMT (UK) »
James does seem very elusive - I can't see any trace of his birth anyway.

It seems John Miles wasn't the only one to add a second name later in life. The marriage record for Caroline Dickman Miles and Richard Boon at St Mary Redcliffe in 1867 apparently has her father's name as James Price Miles. Perhaps that is a clue.

David

Offline Keith Sherwood

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Re: A Baptism for John MILES c.1830 in Widcombe, near Bath
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 01 November 17 22:20 GMT (UK) »
David,
Now, that is very interesting, these middle forenames that surely indicate a surname from a previous, recent generation.  But very confusing at the same time.
Thanks so much for continuing to pursue the true identity of James MILES, born 1806/7...
Keith
The other rather odd thing is that John MILES, b.1830 called himself John Charles MILES later in life, and these are the forenames too given to my grandfather (and therefore his grandson) John Charles SHERWOOD when he was baptised in Eastbourne in 1883...

Offline DRH123

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Re: A Baptism for John MILES c.1830 in Widcombe, near Bath
« Reply #14 on: Friday 03 November 17 18:39 GMT (UK) »
These middle names formed from surnames are certainly potentially helpful, but we can't assume they're necessarily copied from a direct ancestor. In my own family I can think of one case where the surname comes from an uncle by marriage, another where it's from the landlord of the family's tenanted farm.

In your family one which stands out, as it's an unusual name and so hopefully easy to trace, is Densem. John Miles's sister Caroline Dickman Boon has a daughter name Caroline Densem Boon and a witness at his sister Sarah Ann's wedding was James Densem. Although I've never met the name before it turns out there were quite a few in Bath, some of them painters. So perhaps they were just work partners of the Miles family. But then we find James Densem married a Mary Ann Miles, born about 1823 to James and Sarah Miles! This is not John's parents. They baptised several children in Bath and Bathwick from 1813 onwards and so were much older.In the 1851 census they are to be found at Petersburgh Place, the street where your James and Sarah lived earlier and John was born. The census reveals that they came from Maiden Bradley and Hill Deverill in Wiltshire respectively. They married at Hill Deverill in 1805. That raises the interesting question, where were they from 1805 to 1813? Could it be Cheltenham, and they are your James's parents?

On a different tack, your James and Sarah had two sons called Charles, both died young, and then their surviving son John took on Charles for a middle name. That makes it quite likely that James's father was called Charles, though it could come from Sarah's father or just someone else who was important to them.

A very puzzling family, I'm afraid I can't thing of any other approaches.

David


Offline Keith Sherwood

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Re: A Baptism for John MILES c.1830 in Widcombe, near Bath
« Reply #15 on: Friday 03 November 17 20:38 GMT (UK) »
David,
What a splendid piece of research you have conducted, and even if it raises more questions than provides answers, the whole thing is quite fascinating.  Those middle names must surely have a bearing on the truth, and you may have seen that I started a speculative thread on the Common Room about who might have been James's father, but totally without any bites (as in angling parlance, with the float still bobbing on the water, the bait untouched...)
But you've certainly inspired me to continue the search, though I'm not all as familiar with the geography of Gloucs/Warwicks 200 years ago as you so obviously are...
Many thanks again,
Keith