Author Topic: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland  (Read 724 times)

Offline kob3203

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Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
« on: Friday 03 November 17 13:08 GMT (UK) »
I've recently realized that my original method of identifying a 'place' in Ireland as follows is truly insufficient:
Place: Ballynattin
Location: Midway between Cahir and Fethard towns

I'm beginning to think that I need to include a reference like this for every 'place':
County: Tipperary (south riding)
Barony: Middlethird
Civil Parish: Mora
Townland: Ballinattin Upper, Ballinattin Lower
Poor Law Union: Cashel
Registrar's District: Tullamain
Electoral Division: Graigue
RC Parish: Clerihan? Powerstown? New Inn? Cashel ?

As you can probably tell from the question marks it's the last item, the RC Parish, that I'm having trouble nailing a 'place' down to.

The following four websites used together allow me to work out with a high degree of confidence all except the RC Parish:
https://www.johngrenham.com/places/ - (County,CP, PLU, RD)
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch - (County, Barony, CP, Townland + map)
https://www.townlands.ie/ - (County,Barony, CP,ED + map)
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,613673,631163,9,7 - (Map with townlands, CPs, and baronies+modern map overlay)

To find the RC Parish I use this, which gives the closest RC chapels and the RC parishes in which they lie:
http://www.swilson.info/rcparishlink.php - (Map with RC chapels marked)

Is there any way I can be more sure about the RC Parish, or is a shortlist the best I'm going to do ?








Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

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Offline wee Hugh

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Re: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
« Reply #2 on: Friday 03 November 17 15:18 GMT (UK) »
John Grenham's book 'Tracing your Irish ancestors' (Gill & Macmillan, Dublin, 1999) has a map of the Catholic parishes for each county.  But the maps are small and I think only approximate, so may leave you in just as much doubt.

If you like to send me a PM with your eMail address I could scan the one for Tipperary South, if you think it might help.
You would have to scale it up and compare it with a map of townlands or villages, to see whether you can identify which side of a boundary your place falls.
Bagwell of Kilmore & Lisronagh, Co. Tipperary;  Beatty from Enniskillen;  Brown from Preston, Lancs.;  Burke of Ballydugan, Co. Galway;  Casement in the IoM and Co. Antrim;  Davison of Knockboy, Broughshane;  Frobisher;  Guillemard;  Harrison in Co. Antrim and Dublin;  Jones around Burton Pedwardine, Lincs.;  Lindesay of Loughry;  Newcomen of Camlagh, Co. Roscommon;  Shield;  Watson from Kidderminster;  Wilkinson from Leeds

Online Sinann

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Re: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
« Reply #3 on: Friday 03 November 17 16:07 GMT (UK) »
When I'm looking for the RC Parish I click on the link to church records on John Graham's site
Mora Civil Parish for example
https://www.johngrenham.com/c_parish/c_parish_main.php?civilparishid=2259&county=Tipperary&civilparish=Mora&CountyMap=
Click on 6 Church Records.
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/church.php?civilparishid=2259&civilparish=Mora&search_type=full
Than use the link to the NLI site and check the surrounding parishes in reverse just in case there is any cross over.

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Re: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
« Reply #4 on: Friday 03 November 17 18:09 GMT (UK) »
Mora RC parish is in Mora Civil Parish

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Re: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
« Reply #5 on: Friday 03 November 17 18:11 GMT (UK) »
Ballinattin Upper, Ballinattin Lower of  Mora Civil Parish is in  Mora RC parish   

https://www.johngrenham.com/c_parish/c_parish_main.php?civilparishid=2259&civilparish=Mora&county=Tipperary

Offline kob3203

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Re: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 04 November 17 15:16 GMT (UK) »
Mora RC parish ? The NLI and swilson sites give no indication of any Mora RC parish in that area (see attached screenshot from the NLI RC parish map)

(the two areas without names are isolated parts of Powerstown and Clonmel St Marys according to the NLI site)
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

Offline kob3203

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Re: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 04 November 17 15:34 GMT (UK) »
John Grenham's book 'Tracing your Irish ancestors' (Gill & Macmillan, Dublin, 1999) has a map of the Catholic parishes for each county.  But the maps are small and I think only approximate, so may leave you in just as much doubt.

If you like to send me a PM with your eMail address I could scan the one for Tipperary South, if you think it might help.
You would have to scale it up and compare it with a map of townlands or villages, to see whether you can identify which side of a boundary your place falls.

Thanks for the offer. John Grenham's maps were the basis for the NLI RC parish map ( https://registers.nli.ie/#home_map ), so I think I've already got that information.
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

Offline kob3203

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Re: Fully defining a 'place' in Ireland
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 04 November 17 15:35 GMT (UK) »
When I'm looking for the RC Parish I click on the link to church records on John Graham's site
Mora Civil Parish for example
https://www.johngrenham.com/c_parish/c_parish_main.php?civilparishid=2259&county=Tipperary&civilparish=Mora&CountyMap=
Click on 6 Church Records.
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/church.php?civilparishid=2259&civilparish=Mora&search_type=full
Than use the link to the NLI site and check the surrounding parishes in reverse just in case there is any cross over.

I hadn't spotted that - thank you.
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)