Author Topic: Reasons for single (Irish) woman to be in Montreal c1832, please?  (Read 760 times)

Offline Lisa in California

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Reasons for single (Irish) woman to be in Montreal c1832, please?
« on: Thursday 09 November 17 00:26 GMT (UK) »
My ancestor's sister (Esther) married someone who was in the 15th Regiment of Foot in 1832 in Montreal, Quebec (Anglican Garrison).  According to the record, Esther was about 27 years old, single; he was a bachelor.

My ancestor, Jane, was widowed (supposedly, two husbands had died) when she married my ancestor in 1839 in Toronto, Ontario.

While I have posted at least twice (in 2013) about the above sisters and Esther's husband, I don't believe I've asked this question:  what could be the reasons why a single woman would be living in/near Montreal during the 1830s, please? If Jane immigrated with her husband (I only know the surname of one husband), possibly Esther immigrated as well?  Possibly both women arrived with their parents when they were young?  Knowing little about Quebec during the early 1830's, and even less about the military, I'm curious if there could be other reasons why Esther was in Montreal.  Thank you in advance for any suggestions.  I hope I haven't asked this question before.  :-[
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Reasons for single woman to be in Montreal c1832, please?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 09 November 17 00:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi Lisa,

It may be an idea to give us some further info. such as surnames, YoB, where originally from etc?

People from different places ended up in different places for many different reasons i.e. a bit of background on your ancestors may help build a picture for any researchers who have knowledge of different areas in different eras?

Can you also post any links to previous threads please?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Lisa in California

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Re: Reasons for single woman to be in Montreal c1832, please?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 09 November 17 01:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi Annie:

Thank you for your interest.  While we have uncovered a lot of information about Jane (after 1839) and Esther (after c1839), I only know the following prior to 1840:

Jane Brown was born c1811 in Belfast, Ireland.
Years ago, a distant relative told me that Jane was married three times; her first two husbands died and she married William Ellison (who was born c1795 in County Wicklow and was a widower; he was a carpenter) in 1839 in York (Toronto), Ontario.  There is a possibility that William's first wife and child died in Toronto in 1834.  Apparently, prior to her marriage to Ellison, she married someone with the surname of Cullen.
Update:  While we found the deaths of a Mary Ellison and little Christian Elizabeth Ellison in 1834, there is nothing to prove that they were "our" William Ellison's family members.

Esther Hadessah (various spellings) Brown was born c1805 in Belfast, Ireland.  In 1832 she married Edward Botterell in Montreal.  Esther died in 1857 and is buried with Jane (and William Ellison).  Edward Botterell was born in England and served in the military.  Note:  I've always thought that Esther was buried with the Ellison's but since she died prior to both of them, they were buried with her.

The following links give the best picture of the scenarios.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=632319.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=632460.0

We have a lot of information about Esther and Jane and their families after 1839.  Except for knowing the above, I have no idea if there were other siblings or who their parents were.  Thank you again for your interest.
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Reasons for single woman to be in Montreal c1832, please?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 09 November 17 01:39 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Lisa...

The info. you've posted will now help others to help you as they now know your ancestors were Irish i.e. knowing where to look!

I'm not so sure Irish records go back too far, certainly not for mine so far  :-\

Do you know if they were catholic or protestant which may help?

I know Cullen is an Irish name as I descend from that surname (mine were catholic)  :D

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"


Offline Lisa in California

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Re: Reasons for single woman to be in Montreal c1832, please?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 09 November 17 01:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi Annie:

Thank you for asking very good questions, in hope of clarifying the situation.

I believe they were not Catholic.  Records for William and Jane and their children float between Church of England and Wesleyan (I thought there was a third "choice", but at the moment I cannot find a record with another description).

Thank you again.  :)
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)

Offline Lisa in California

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Re: Reasons for single woman to be in Montreal c1832, please?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 09 November 17 02:00 GMT (UK) »
As mentioned in one of the threads

1842 Toronto (City) Upper Canada Census
Willm Ellison, Carpenter
8 names under his is
Margt E Cullen(?)
  Perhaps she was related to Jane's first or second husband; or, perhaps since Cullen wasn't an unusual name, it was just a coincidence that Margaret was living near the Ellisons.
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Reasons for single (Irish) woman to be in Montreal c1832, please?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 09 November 17 02:21 GMT (UK) »
I would certainly have a closer look at the Margaret E Cullen as it seems too much of a coincidence & may confirm the family story?

"While we found the deaths of a Mary Ellison and little Christian Elizabeth Ellison in 1834, there is nothing to prove that they were "our" William Ellison's family members."

What info. do you have regarding that burial, do dates/ages match with other events?

Where are they buried in relation to distance/proximity of where William was when he married Jane, were William & Jane buried in the same area/cemetery?

Is there no hint of parentage anywhere for either?

Have you found children of Jane from her 1st 2 marriages?

Annie

South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Lisa in California

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Re: Reasons for single (Irish) woman to be in Montreal c1832, please?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 26 July 23 09:16 BST (UK) »
I would certainly have a closer look at the Margaret E Cullen as it seems too much of a coincidence & may confirm the family story?

"While we found the deaths of a Mary Ellison and little Christian Elizabeth Ellison in 1834, there is nothing to prove that they were "our" William Ellison's family members."

What info. do you have regarding that burial, do dates/ages match with other events?

Where are they buried in relation to distance/proximity of where William was when he married Jane, were William & Jane buried in the same area/cemetery?

Is there no hint of parentage anywhere for either?

Have you found children of Jane from her 1st 2 marriages?

Annie

I think I get the award for the tardiest thank you to a RootsChatter.  :-X  :-[. I just found this thread when searching for my Ellison postings.

Annie, thank you very much for your last reply.  I’m very embarrassed that I never returned.  In 2017, I was going through something very difficult which lasted until early 2018.  I apparently forgot to come back here once that event was over.

You were spot on to question burials.  Since 2017, we’ve uncovered Ellison answers and found new information, some of which can be found in later Ellison postings.  Summing up:
William Ellison’s possible first wife, Mary, was buried in the same (Toronto, Canada) cemetery, same plot, as
Christian Elizabeth, daughter of William and Mary, and
William, son of William and Jane (Jane Brown Cullen was William’s second wife)
The dates and of course the burial plot appear to indicate that William’s wife and two young children were buried together.  The cemetery closed before William and Jane passed away.

In addition to the above, we found an 1823 marriage in Rathdrum, Ireland for a William Ellison, carpenter, and Mary Bolton.  I have just begun to explore that fact; they are quite possibly my William and Mary.  (I haven’t yet figured out where they were married.)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sj9/

I don’t believe I started a search for Margaret E Cullen.  In the past, I believe I searched for children from Jane’s previous marriage (but didn’t find anything). I will tackle those ideas after I try to find more Ellison facts. Since finding (years ago) William’s and Jane’s children, I believe I looked for the Irish naming pattern but I don’t remember the results.  I will try that again; it could provide clues for Jane’s family.  Again, apologies, and thank you.  I will resume my Ellison search.  Once I’ve exhausted all ideas, I will resume looking for details about Jane Brown Cullen. Lisa
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)