FREDERICK AUGUSTUS FRASER men, I can not find! Help!

[MissJulie76]

Can someone help me? I am STUCK!

Looking for 2 different FREDERICK AUGUSTUS FRASER men, father and son - details below -

Looking for my GGG grandad, and my GGGG grandad, BOTH named FREDERICK AUGUSTUS FRASER! - both born in Scotland.
I have various bits of information which i have found, and printed, but i am struggling to find the birth of both, and the death of one of them. I will post here the info i do have in the hope that someone may recognise them!
The older Frederick,-
I can NOT find his BIRTH! Parents = SYMON FRASER, soldier, born Ardersier 7/5/1809 & MARY USHER, born Ireland - birth and death unknown & their marriage unknown.
Per 1861 census born C 1815, Ardersier, (Campbelltown per 1851 census),
Died 03/07/1866, Dundee, aged 44 it says, a watchmaker (and per 1851 census).
Per his daughter, Lucy's birth cert he was an insurance agent in 1863 (and also in 1861 census = agent for a burial society)
He married CATHERINE FALCONER on 29/08/1841 in Abbotshall.
Their children = Espet Fraser (Born C1842), Margaret Fraser (Born C1846 Laurencekirk), Catherine Fraser (Born C1853), Charles Fraser (Born C1855 Old Machar), Mary Ann Fraser (Born C1858 Old Machar), Elizabeth Fraser (Born C1861 Inverness), Lucy Fraser (Born 9/8/1863 Inverness) and the other Frederick Augustus Fraser - who i will detail below.
The younger Frederick -
I can NOT find his BIRTH or DEATH!
Per 1861 Census, born Inverness (not sure if Beauly or Kilmorack?!)
He was a railway hammerman, per his son's birth in 1886 (yet another Frederick Augustus Fraser, but he only lived 8 hours)
I know that he was 35 (according to marriage cert) when he married FLORA CROSS on 13/8/1886 in Inverness. Per the marriage cert it says he was a railway striker.
Frederick and Flora had a son WILLIAM CROSS FRASER (born 1887) who married MARGARET PATIENCE - i know all of the details from this point.
I would be very grateful if anyone can help! Thanks in advance, and many thanks for taking the time to read such a long post!

MissJulie76

[AMBLY]

Hi MissJulie76

Scotlands People: There is an 1855 Birth Registration for a Charles Simon FRASER, registered in St Nicholas - that would seem a very likely candidate to be the son you list of FAF Snr and wife Catherine FALCONER.

In 1855,the birth registration collected this information:
Other children and whether they were living or deceased
Ages of both parents
Birthplaces of both parents
Parents’ usual residence
Baptismal name (if different).

That information could be very useful in the search for FAF snr.

Cheers
AMBLY

[glenclare]

1851 has the younger Frederick as 7months old. August 1850 birth.

[AMBLY]

Is this not FAF Jnr and wife Flora (Fanny)?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW75-4GX

If So, it seems he likely died in England in 1934:
Frederick A FRASER age 85
Registered in Cannock, Staffordshire

His birth (baptism), like all his siblings born prior to 1855, don't appear to be recorded  - can't locate on Scotland's people.

If he was in the army, his record if there is one surviving, may have some information as to his birth.

Cheers
AMBLY

[chempat]

Think Fanny is not Flora.
Married 21 years, and she is from Stafford:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l1d/

Added:
William Cross Fraser is not with his parents in 1891, so have you got Frederick in 1891 with Flora or Fanny?

[chempat]

Fanny with Frederick A Fraser (Scotland) in 1901 in Staffs and in 1891 in Staffs, with Alfred W Fraser born in Staffs in about 1883.

This possible marriage, so Alfred W would be Fanny's son:

Marriages March quarter 1890 
Fanny Bayliss     Walsall   
 Frederick Fraser        Walsall   

But not yet seen a birth for Alfred W.

But this could be his marriage:
Marriages December quarter 1910 
 Alfred W Bayliss-Fraser  Cannock
Alfred W B    Fraser   Cannock   

[AMBLY]

Agreed, Fanny isn't Flora  - since done more digging about, and there is some mystery in that family too...

Edit posted same time: Some of this doubles up on what you've written Chempat  ....

But back to FAF jnr and Flora.....

William Cross FRASER, is with his CROSS Grandparents in 1901 too, age 13, at the same address, He's still with them in 1901, age 13, same address - Upper Kessock Street, Inverness.

Her parents are Donald CROSS and Catherine GRANT, this is on a couple of A*Y trees.

In 1894, Flora remarried:
1894 MARRIAGE:
Flora FRASER age 36, widow
Father Donald CROSS, mother Catherine CROSS ms GRANT
Married: Robert MONTGOMERY, Boilermaker, 38, widower, on 16 July 1894, Glasgow
Both of 37 Marlow Street, Kinning Park

Robert was at that address in 1891, with his first wife, Annie and their children, including a William Montgomery age 2, b Motherwell.

In 1901 CENSUS, Govan, Glasgow, Lanarkshire:
Robert MONTGOMERY 43,  Boilermaker, b Greenock, Renfrewshire
Wife Flora 35, b Inverness abt 1866
With a number of MONTGOMERY children, including William, age 13, b Motherwell

So, by that it would indicate FAF Jnr was deceased by 1894.

But I'm not yet convinced the man in Staffordshire isn't him.

There is a marriage:
Frederick FRASER
Fanny BAYLISS
Married Mar Qtr 1891, Walsall, Staffs

And these two Census:
1891: 9 Green Lane, Walsall, Staffordshire
Head: Fredk FRASER 40, Railway ?Porter, b Scotland
Wife: Fanny FRASER 30, b Willenhall, Staffs
Son: Alfred W FRASER 7, b Hednesford, Staffs

1901: Rownsley Road, Cannock, Staffordshire
RG13 / Piece 2663 /Folio 154 / Page 32
Head: Fred A FRASER 49, General Labourer, b Scotland
Wife: Fanny FRASER 40, b Willenhall, Staffs
Son: Alfred W FRASER 18, unm, Blacksmith, b Hednesford, Staffs

And this marriage
Alfred W.B. FRASER aka, Alfred W BAYLISS-FRASER
Married Dec Qtr 1910 Cannock
To either: Mary J B BEARD  or Catherine HARRISON - I think it's Mary JB BEARD (I think there are births GRO for the other couple).

I'm still figgering..... but I think Fanny may have been nee KITSON, this marriage:
Fanny KITSON
B 1860, Willenhall Staffs
Parentrs Jeremiah KITSON & Maria
Found in 1861 & 1871 Census
Married 1880 Rushall Staffs to: John BAYLISS, Clog maker
Father : Jeremiah Kitson.

The 1881 Census shows John was 58, Fanny was 23.
Walsall, Staffs: RG11 / Piece 2821 / Folio 81 / Page 2

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

This is all I can find, which doesn't look right on the face of it:

Registered in Cannock, Staffordshire:
Alfred William MOORE, March Qtr 1884, mms KITSON

But I can't find  him on census or a Kitson-Moore marriage?

Cheers
AMBLY

[chempat]

Hi, Ambly,

Yes, I was posting and then adding as I did not think anyone else was working on it.

As MissJulie put
'Frederick and Flora had a son WILLIAM CROSS FRASER (born 1887) who married MARGARET PATIENCE - i know all of the details from this point.'

then I did wonder why she had not mentioned that W C Fraser was not with his parents in 1891 etc because that death in 1934 fits so well if she was aware of him in 1891, 1901 etc in Staffordshire.

Also, if she knew that Flora remarried it would have been helpful to put that, to say when she thought he had died

I also saw that Kitson, but had to go out shopping so not able to go any further.

Awaiting more information from MissJulie?