Author Topic: Lord Carrington ownership of Mills in Yorkshire in 1840/50's  (Read 1478 times)

Offline sallyyorks

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,097
    • View Profile
Re: Lord Carrington ownership of Mills in Yorkshire in 1840/50's
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 14 November 17 12:45 GMT (UK) »
Marriage
Name James Horsfall
Spouse's Name   Nanny Stott
Event Date 15 Mar 1830
Event Place Elland, York, England

https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AJames~%20%2Bsurname%3AHorsfall~%20%2Bbirth_place%3AYorkshire~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1780-1810~%20%2Bspouse_givenname%3Ananny~

Added
If these are the parents, and it looks like it, of the Joseph baptism at the Independent chapel in Brighouse/Elland that mazi posted, it means they were married 9 days before Joseph was born
'birth: 24 March 1830'   

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline sallyyorks

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,097
    • View Profile
Re: Lord Carrington ownership of Mills in Yorkshire in 1840/50's
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 14 November 17 15:28 GMT (UK) »
1841 Census
Mill's Bridge [Milnsbridge?] Fold
Huddersfield
James Horsfall b 1802-1806
Nanny b 1807-1811
Joseph 1829
Susan 1832
Mary 1836
Emily 1838
Rushworth 1841

Nanny Horsfall
Event Type Death
Registration Quarter   Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year   1846
Registration District   Huddersfield

*Stott Horsfall
Event Type Birth
Registration Quarter   Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year   1846
Registration District   Huddersfield


1851 Census
Huddersfield
James Horsfall 1805 Rastrick [near Brighouse] - Clothier [<had his own business?]
Grace  1807 Longwood [second?] wife
Joseph 1830 Longwood - Wool Sorter
Susan 1832 Longwood - Birler
Mary 1835 Longwood - Birler
Rushworth 1841 Longwood
Martha 1844 Longwood
Sarah 1844 Longwood
*Stott 1847 Longwood

1861 Census
Armitage Place
Longwood
Huddersfield
James Horsfall   Head   56   Brighouse, Yorkshire - Power Loom Weaver
Grace Horsfall   Wife   55   Longwood, Yorkshire
Emily Horsfall   Daughter   23   Milnsbridge, Yorkshire - Woolling Tester
Rushworth Horsfall   Son   20   Milnsbridge, Yorkshire - Mechanic Iron Foundry
Sarah Horsfall   Daughter   17   Milnsbridge, Yorkshire - Wollen Power Loom Weaver
Martha Horsfall   Daughter   17   Milnsbridge, Yorkshire - Wollen Twister
Flott [Stott?] Horsfall   Son   13   Milnsbridge, Yorkshire
George Horsfall   Son 9 Milnsbridge, Yorkshire


Not sure if this is any help, but I found this about the 2nd Lord Carrington . He seems to have been responsible for the raising and maintenance of militias. The link mentions he was responsible for purchasing their clothing/uniforms and other equipment
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=n7o6CgAAQBAJ&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=carrington+mill+owner+huddersfield&source=bl&ots=nVhuUm6DwX&sig=j0lUvhHpdjndAY9VZKcVSQagKXI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjutdK8qL7XAhXMDsAKHe3jCFkQ6AEISDAF#v=onepage&q=carrington%20mill%20owner%20huddersfield&f=false

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline sallyyorks

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,097
    • View Profile
Re: Lord Carrington ownership of Mills in Yorkshire in 1840/50's
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 14 November 17 22:43 GMT (UK) »
I wonder if this is a mistranscription of Horsfall?


James Horsfield
Christening Date 28 Apr 1805
Christening Date (Original)   28 APR 1805
Christening Place BRIDGEND INDEPENDENT,BRIGHOUSE,YORK,ENGLAND
Birth Date   26 Mar 1805
Father's Name Abraham Horsfield
Mother's Name   Mary

Is this where the christian name *'Rushworth' (b 1841 on census) came from?

Marriage
Name Abraham Horsfall
Spouse's Name   Mary *Rushforth
Event Date   03 Dec 1798
Event Place   Elland,York,England


Offline venelow

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Lord Carrington ownership of Mills in Yorkshire in 1840/50's
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 14 November 17 22:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Sally found the right family.

The marriage record at St Peter's Cook's River, Nov 26 1860 for Joseph and Mary confirms that James Horsfall and Nanny Stott were the parents of Joseph.  Joseph is a bachelor and a wool sorter. He states his age is 30 and he was born at Huddersfield. His father James is stated to be a weaver. Mary was 17 years old and the record notes she had consent to marry from her father Frederick who was also a wool sorter.
What are the odds that Joseph was working with Frederick Clissold?

Wool sorters were in demand in the colonies. It was a job that required an apprenticeship so Joseph would have been apprenticed in the early 1840s and by 1851 was working as a wool sorter.

This was a hard, dirty and dangerous labour as this blog shows.

http://bancroftsfromyorkshire.blogspot.ca/2013/03/la-maladie-de-bradfordthe-woolsorters.html

Venelow

Offline sallyyorks

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,097
    • View Profile
Re: Lord Carrington ownership of Mills in Yorkshire in 1840/50's
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 15 November 17 14:45 GMT (UK) »
Some 'Clissolds' started manufacturing cloth at a mill in Cleckheaton in 1910. Then moved to Bradford.

http://www.clissold.co.uk/About.aspx

Offline sallyyorks

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,097
    • View Profile
Re: Lord Carrington ownership of Mills in Yorkshire in 1840/50's
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 15 November 17 15:05 GMT (UK) »

...Wool sorters were in demand in the colonies. It was a job that required an apprenticeship so Joseph would have been apprenticed in the early 1840s and by 1851 was working as a wool sorter.

This was a hard, dirty and dangerous labour as this blog shows.

http://bancroftsfromyorkshire.blogspot.ca/2013/03/la-maladie-de-bradfordthe-woolsorters.html

Venelow

This old film footage of a mill in Dewsbury, shows wool sorters at a blanket mill

http://www.yorkshirefilmarchive.com/film/wormald-and-walker-blanket-mill-dewsbury

Offline venelow

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Lord Carrington ownership of Mills in Yorkshire in 1840/50's
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 15 November 17 18:34 GMT (UK) »
iwccc

It seems unlikely that someone like Joseph would be sent by a mill owner to Australia to negotiate buying wool. If he was doing that he would have described his occupation on the marriage record in different terms.

A timeline shows his working activities:
1851 Census  -  Wool sorter
1860 Marriage  - Wool sorter
1879  Mentioned in the Police Gazette as the victim of a robbery  - Wool sorter

There are also mentions in trade directories of 1875 and 1876 of him being a draper. So it appears he was working in different aspects of the wool industry.
In 1882 Joseph is listed in a trade directory as a wool broker and by 1884 a wool merchant. He may have been doing this before that date but by then he was spending enough time at it for it to be considered his main occupation.

Joseph was obviously ambitious and saw his future to be in the colonies rather than be held back be lack of education and opportunity. It seems he worked hard, was interested in his local community, church and politics.

If you have not already found this - there is some information about Joseph here. This blog has transcripts from old newspapers and other historic material.

https://macdonaldtownbicycleclub.com/2015/11/30/pulpits-and-personalities-the-shifting-sands-of-time-holy-trinity-church-erskineville/

Even John Sutcliffe Horsfall who went  to NSW in 1856 at the age of 19 was employed as a clerk even though his family were wool manufacturers in Bradford. He had to work his way up to become a partner.  Read about him here.

http://oa.anu.edu.au/obituary/horsfall-john-sutcliffe-508

I don't think the 2nd Lord Carrington had any engagement in trade. His own father, upon being elevated to the peerage, was required to give up his work in the bank by no less a person than King George himself.  Family money or land owning was the only acceptable source of income at that time.

The 3rd Lord Carrington did not arrive in Australia until the second half of the 1880s after his brother Charles was appointed Governor of New South Wales in 1885. Joseph Horsfall died an untimely death in 1885.

I think your family story may have got mixed up with the John Horsfall - Lord Rupert Carrington connection. It seems that John S. Horsfall was well known as a wool trader and grazier.  Joseph may have had some business dealings with him.

I think it would be quite hard to find out if Joseph lost any wool on a ship as his wool would probably be only a part of the cargo and the bills of lading may not have survived. Mention of the Cape is interesting as by the mid 1870s the preferred route would be via the Suez Canal. The insurance records would probably be with Lloyds of London if they survived.  You should ask about ships' records on a forum devoted to historic shipping if you can find one.

I hope you find this helpful. I have investigated many family stories, in my own family and for others, and so far have only found one that was actually true. Some have a little kernel of truth that has been mis-rembered over the years but most are due to mix ups with people of similar names or similar events, or prevarications to hide uncomfortable facts or even "jokes" by elders taken as gospel by young children.

Sincerely
Venelow
Canada

Offline iwccc

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 371
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Lord Carrington ownership of Mills in Yorkshire in 1840/50's
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 15 November 17 22:57 GMT (UK) »
Hi sallyyorks,  Thank you for so much great information. You have gone to a lot of trouble. Much appreciated.  I can't open the link about the 2nd Lord Carrington.  Not sure what the problem is.  It seems we have got a lot of the story worked out - just a bit confusing about the Lord Carrington side of things - maybe it is a family myth?!   Thanks again

Offline iwccc

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 371
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Lord Carrington ownership of Mills in Yorkshire in 1840/50's
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 15 November 17 23:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi Venelow, Wow! what a great lot of information. Thank you so much.  I had found the Bicycle Club blog and I am following this up with the church to see if there is any more information available. Perhaps the idea of Joseph being sent to buy wool is just a family myth.  He may well have just come to Australia for a better life, more work etc. 
I am not sure how John Sutcliffe Horsfall fits into the family tree. 
It looks like a lot of our family oral story is part fabrication or misquotes etc.  Makes it exciting when you find out some truths.  I appreciate your help.