Author Topic: One service number, two different men?  (Read 451 times)

Offline AngelFish

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One service number, two different men?
« on: Saturday 11 November 17 23:32 GMT (UK) »
I really need to some help please.

Is it possible that two men had the same service number? If not, please can I have some help to sort out what has happened here please?

William E G SAUNDERS was born 1895 Fulham registration district, to parents Michael Maxwell SAUNDERS and Emily Beatrice WHATLEY. He had two sisters.
-  1911 Census shows he was at the Badajos Barracks, Aldershot.
-  His medal card shows his reg no was 8702.

Today I've been taking advantage of the free access on Find My Past, and found British Army Service Records (Attestation) for William SAUNDERS, Service Number is 8702. BUT it says he was born 1888, it doesn't give middle names, and also has the fathers name was Martin Saunders, and says he had an older brother Henry, and younger Martin and Charles.
Link https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo96%2f1272%2f1615355

Thank you so much for reading.

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Offline IMBER

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Re: One service number, two different men?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 12 November 17 08:49 GMT (UK) »
At that time each regiment had their own service numbers and therefore it was possible to have the same number in other regiments. These two chaps served in different regiments.

Imber
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Online MaxD

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Re: One service number, two different men?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 12 November 17 10:33 GMT (UK) »
Indeed.  The second one attested to the militia (part time) 7th Battalion Rifle Brigade but transferred after 2 months to the Bedford Regiment when he would have received another number.

Your splendidly named William Ewart Gladstone (wonder who he was named after) Saunders served in the Hampshire Regiment.  Did you know he was awarded the Meritorious Service Medal when serving as a nursing orderly in No 3 British General Hospital in Basra?

MaxD
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Offline AngelFish

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Re: One service number, two different men?
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 12 November 17 11:34 GMT (UK) »
Morning IMBER and MaxD

Thank you both very much for taking the time to explain for me.



MaxD
I knew he was in the Hampshire Regiment, but don't really understand his medal card and didn't know about the Meritorious Service Medal, or even that he'd been a nursing orderly in Basra. Is there any way for me to find out more about his service?
William E G Saunders (an amazing name which I thought would be individual but apparently wasn't), was married in 1920 at Secunderabed in India. He was a Guard for N.G.S.Ry (Nizam's Guaranteed State Railway Company). When his wife died, he returned to England (or, he returned to England before his wife died - I don't know) and four children were put into an orphanage in India :'( There were also probably natural children born in England.

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Online MaxD

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Re: One service number, two different men?
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 12 November 17 11:37 GMT (UK) »
Happy to explain further - later today.

MaxD
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Offline AngelFish

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Re: One service number, two different men?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 12 November 17 11:55 GMT (UK) »
Happy to explain further - later today.

MaxD

Of course. Thank you.
We've been to see our daughter parade and lay a poppy wreath on behalf of her Scout troop this morning.
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Online MaxD

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Re: One service number, two different men?
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 12 November 17 19:39 GMT (UK) »
Although only his medal records have survived, there is quite a lot that can be gleaned from various clues.

His regimental number tells us he joined late 1910/early 1911 and you have seen him in 1st Battalion Hampshire Regiment in Aldershot in 1911.

The next definite clue is that his 1914/1915 Star relates to his being at Gallipoli (2b) from 25 April which means he was then with 2nd Battalion.  We can surmise that he was in Mhow India before that with the 2nd Bn who moved from India in Dec 1914 to England where they were in Romsey, Stratford and Warwick before deployment to Gallipoli.

The battalion were evacuated to Egypt in Jan 1916 and then went to France where they served the rest of the war.

However, the award of the MSM for duty in Basra in October 1916, and the medal roll entry for his British War and Victory medals which has him not only in 2nd Bn but also in 1/4th Bn attached to 3 General Hospital (Basra)  suggests that instead of leaving Egypt for France with 2nd Bn, he was transferred to 1/4th Bn who were already in Mesopotamia (Iraq).  If you'd like to look at the history of the 1/4th Bn you will see that they went in all directions while in Iraq so presumably he was found a job as a nursing orderly in the British hospital.
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/hampshire-regiment/

There is no clue as to when he returned home or when he was discharged.

The return to India may well have been a consequence of his pre-war service there between 1911 and 1914.

There is free access to Ancestry (I think until later tonight) so here is the link you need for the MSM card

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1262/30850_A001854-00962?pid=3638881&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DUzb73%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26gss%3Dangs-c%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26gsfn%3Dw%2520e%2520g%26gsfn_x%3D0%26gsln%3Dsaunders%26gsln_x%3D0%26gskw%3Dmeritorious%26cpxt%3D1%26cp%3D4%26catbucket%3Drstp%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3D6x5%26pcat%3D39%26h%3D3638881%26recoff%3D9%252010%252011%252012%26dbid%3D1262%26indiv%3D1%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Uzb73&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

This is the link to the London Gazette of 19 October 1916 which published the MSM award. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29789/supplement/10058
The award was made either for gallantry or for distinguished service.  We will not find the citation I fear.

BTW - if you don't want to stay with FindMyPast and Ancestry after the free access, check your account does not say Auto renew.

If you need any more, do come back.

MaxD

Tell your daughter well done!!

Help from Longlongtrail with regimental history is acknowledged with thanks.
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Offline AngelFish

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Re: One service number, two different men?
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 12 November 17 23:58 GMT (UK) »
Thank you MaxD, for all that info. I know I would have never been able to discover that myself.

I have an annual subscription to Ancestry, but had never come across the MSM card before. I know how tricky Find My Past can be about hiding the auto renew tick box, but it's letting me use my account without subscribing this weekend.

I'll read more about the Hampshire Regiment, thanks for the links.

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Online MaxD

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Re: One service number, two different men?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 13 November 17 08:39 GMT (UK) »
As you have Ancestry, you'll find his medal roll entries come up as the first two hits if you search in Awards and Decorations of Honour using his full name and nothing else.

MaxD
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