Apprenticeship for Drapers

[artifis]

Does anyone know if, during the 1850s to 1870s, there was an apprenticeship involved in becoming a Draper?

I've been researching a guy who, in the 1881 census and subsequently, describes himself as a Master Draper and just Draper in the 1871 census and at his marriage in 1875.

Unfortunately I can't find him in the 1861 census anywhere but I understand that there are a significant number of censuses missing in Oxfordshire near where he was born and in the Middlesex area where I later found him.  This means I can't find out if he was working for a Draper in 1861.

[bevo]

He may have started out as a tailor.

[StevieSteve]

Yes, I have plenty of Apprentice Drapers

Here's the website for the Drapers Livery Company

http://www.thedrapers.co.uk/

[artifis]

At least one of his brothers was also a draper, their parents father was a groom at Middle Aston House and his mother a schoolmistress so no history of either tailoring or draper in the family.

I'll look at the Draper Livery Company web site.

Thanks both for your comments.

[goldie61]

This site is a record of Apprenticeships (in London mainly I think - but Middlesex might be included?).
The Drapers' Company Apprenticeships are on there.
http://www.londonroll.org/
You didn't name your ancestor in your post, so I couldn't do a search.
Beware though. I looked for years for an ancestor of mine who was a dyer - even visited Dyers' Hall in London - to no avail. Finally when this web-site came on-line a couple of years ago, I found him apprenticed to be a dyer, but in the Drapers' company!
You evidently didn't get an apprenticeship necessarily within the company of the trade you followed.
So be wise to do a wider search.

[StevieSteve]

You evidently didn't get an apprenticeship necessarily within the company of the trade you followed.
So be wise to do a wider search.

The records can certainly whizz you back a bit if you strike lucky.

I was at Guildhall on Saturday and found my Goldsmith ancestor was actually a Barber by patrimony, so giving me his father, and the father's apprenticeship stated him as the son of so-and-so of Fotheringhay, Northants which would have been quite a leap of faith if it wasn't written in black and white

Even cooler, I found my boy was Grand High Dragon Wizard of the Barber Company for a year (or Chief Warden as they preferred to call themselves)


(BTW I checked when I posted this morning - the Draper records at Guildhall are pretty sparse)

[goldie61]

Lucky you Stevie!
Mine didn't go that far - but it was exciting to see my guy, and his father's, names in the actual register from 1812.
Love the 'Grand High Dragon Wizard'! - sounds like something out of Harry Potter! 

[horselydown86]

Even cooler, I found my boy was Grand High Dragon Wizard of the Barber Company for a year (or Chief Warden as they preferred to call themselves)

I'm sorry to dampen your joy, but the Grandest and Highest office in the Court of a Livery Company was the Master.

After him were the various Wardens; their number reflecting the size of the Company.

ADDED:

Please pardon me - it appears that in some companies the title of Prime Warden was used instead of Master.

[StevieSteve]

No problem, hd86.

As I transcribed 4 sets of election results from the Minute Books, all in the same format, I'm fairly confident that the Barbers' Court of Assistants consisted of

Master or Chief Warden
2nd Governor or 1st Warden
3rd Governor or 2nd Warden
4th Governor or 3rd Warden
Assistants

Once you hit 4th Governor, it was an inexorable rise up the ladder each year until you hit Master, after which you returned to Assistantship


Ref: MS5257/12