John Evan's

[Maiden Stone]

There were 4 shoemakers named John Evans on 1851 census in Liverpool. 2 of them were too young, around 30.
2 possibles :
Rathbone St. Age 72. Born Wales. Sons William & Robert and daughter Catherine in household.
Workhouse. Age 48. Born Wales.

[eileendavid]

Thank you all for your help so far.

 I have gone through the Lan OPC and have discarded all but the following which I got from the LDS and non of these were on the records so couldn't check to see if any of these John Evans was a shoemaker or cordwainer.

8 June 1818 John Evans – Elisabeth Ann Chandler
Saint Peter Church Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

20 October 1816 John Evans – Elisabeth Midghall
Saint Peter Church Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, Englan

6 May 1817 John Evans – Elisabeth Gulburn
Saint Peter Church Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

8 October 1817 John Evans – Elizabeth Lewis
St. Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire England

The Elizabeth Evans aged 89 who died in 1833 of Circus Street she would be too old to be Elizabeth, Edward and Mary's mother (born between 1827-1834) could be a grandmother though as I have also been told of a John Evans being on the electoral roll for 1832 a shoemaker in Circus Street. 

Also can someone advise if they think that combmaker on the two baptisms above could be cordwainer?  They sound similar to me.  I think Elizabeth was only 14 when she married and her father signed the register in 1841 as she was a minor.

Can't find an 1841 census for John Evans, Elizabeth his wife, Edward his son born 1834 or Mary born 1833.  Elizabeth their daughter was with her husband Robert Forshaw.

Mary Evans appears on the 1851, 1861 census with her sister Elizabeth/Betsey Forshaw a widow as a washer/char woman.  On the 1871 census it's Edward Evans a labourer that is now lodging with his sister.  Not found Mary on the 1871 census or Edward on the 1851 or 1861.

Can anyone help to untangle the web I find myself in 

Eileen

[lancsann]

The only Robert Forshaw, shoemaker, i can find who is about the right age for your Robert (born c1818) on 1841 census is the one with wife Elizabeth age 21 living in Milton Street which is the address on the marriage certificate. Elizabeth was born in Ireland.

Please could you give us the person you are working back from so that perhaps we could trace better.

Most of the Forshaw's seem to be blacksmiths. I have some in my tree too.

[eileendavid]

Hello Lancsann

Robert Forshaw was a blacksmith who married Elizabeth Evans in 1841.  It was Elizabeth's father John Evans who was a shoemaker/cordswainer. 

Elizabeth aged 21 was actually only 14 she was baptised in Liverpool daughter of John and Elizabeth Evans.  She had a brother Edward and a sister Mary both born in Liverpool. (not found Mary or Edward for the 1841 census)  By the 1851 census Elizabeth Forshaw nee Evans was a widow and her sister Mary Evans was living with her aged 19.  On this census Elizabeth says she was born in Liverpool.  Her husband died in 1848 buried at St John's Old Haymarket Liverpool.  The couple had two sons James and John.  Only John Forshaw (my great grandfather) survived as James wasn't on the 1851 census.

On the 1861 census she is recorded as Betsy Forshaw is living with her unmarried sister Mary was aged 28.  Betsey recorded as age 40.

On the 1871 census Elizabeth is 45/48 and her brother Edward is now living with her aged 38 and a single labourer.

I think Elizabeth died June 1876 age 51 in West Derby Liverpool.

Robert Forshaw my great great grandfather was baptised at St Peter's 1819 son of James and Elizabeth Forshaw nee ?

I thought James was the son of Richard and Mary Forshaw nee Coppull but they had 3 boys that I have found and two were named James but both died.  I spent 3 days going though all the Liverpool central registers on Lan opc.

Which Forshaw's are in your tree?

Eileen

[lancsann]

mine is Hugh Forshaw of Skelmersdale who married Margaret Hesketh of Simonswood in 1824

sorry it was a mistyping - I should have said Robert Forshaw, blacksmith in 1841

what makes you say Elizabeth was only 14 when she married please as she describes herself as 21 in 1841, 30 in 51, 40 in 61, 48 in 71

[lancsann]

this baptism would fit

Baptism: 10 Sep 1821 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Evans - [Child] of John Evans & Elizabeth
    Abode: Lumber St
    Occupation: Labourer

John could easily have changed his profession in 20 years.

Also if Elizabeth describes herself as a minor in March 1841,she could have been age 20 (ie a minor) with a birthday between then and the census date of 6th June, 1851 30th March so before birthday & 1861 7th April'

Just trying to make sense of census ages

[eileendavid]

On the 1871 census  her brother Edward is staying with her these are the two baptisms that I think are relevant of my John and Elizabeth Evans.  I don't think he was a combmaker I think he was a cordwainer/shoemaker.  I originally had the 1821 Elizabeth but her father was a labourer.

Baptism: 31 Mar 1834 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancs.
Edward Evans - [Child] of John Evans & Elizabeth
    Abode: Myrtle St
    Occupation: Comb Maker
    Baptised by: C. Wray
    Register: Baptisms 1833 - 1834, Page 399, Entry 3191
    Source: LDS Film 1656421

Baptism: 24 Jun 1827 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancs.
Elizabeth Evans - [Child] of John Evans & Elizabeth
    Abode: Addison Street
    Occupation: Combmaker
    Baptised by: P. Bulmer Curate
    Register: Baptisms 1826 - 1827, Page 286, Entry 2283
    Source: LDS Film 1656419

Baptism: 10 Sep 1821 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancs.
Elizabeth Evans - [Child] of John Evans & Elizabeth
    Abode: Lumber St
    Occupation: Labourer
    Baptised by: P. Bulmer Curate
    Register: Baptisms 1821 - 1822, Page 88, Entry 699
    Source: LDS Film 1656418

When she married Robert Forshaw in 1841 she was a minor and John Evans signed the register.  I thought the 1871 census said she was 35.

This is the marriage

Marriage: 18 Apr 1841 St Peters, Liverpool, Lancs.
Robert Forshaw - (X), Full, Blacksmith, Bachelor, Milton St
Elizabeth Evans - (X), Minor, Spinster, Milton St
    Groom's Father: James Forshaw, Blacksmith
    Bride's Father: John Evans, Shoe Maker
    Witness: John Evans; Elizabeth Jones, (X)
    Married by Banns by: Thos Halton M A Curate
    Register: Marriages 1840 - 1841, Page 249, Entry 497
    Source: LDS Film 93920

I have been unable to find another Edward Evans of the correct age other than the one with Elizabeth born in 1827.

I have not found John Evans and his wife Elizabeth.  There are 38 on Lan opc I believe.  The ones I posted earlier are the ones I have been unable to check to see if any of the 4 are shoemakers and where they lived.

On the 1841 census she said she was from Ireland and then Liverpool

Her son John (my great grandfather) lived in Manchester but for a spell was living in Liverpool in 1879 in Everton he had one of his daughters baptised at St Peter's.

You sent another message whilst I was typing this and the Elizabeth you gave me was what I had originally prior to not being able to find an Edward with the same parents. Myrtle Street and Addlington Street both had Forshaws living in them but Lumber Street is also in the same locality.

I have found a death for an Elizabeth in 1880 age 53 in West Derby but don't know whether she is the correct one.

This branch of my history is so complicated. 

Eileen

[Maiden Stone]

I've not seen image of register, but I wondered about combmaker/ cordwainer.

[lancsann]

I can't remember where I saw it but in searching round I found a marriage of a John & Elizabeth where John was a comb maker

On the 1841 marriage both Robert and Elizabeth made their mark and a John Evans signed as a witness. He could have been another relative eg brother

just as a point age 20 was considered as a minor

1871 Elizabeth age 48, Edward Evans 38

the Edward evans baptised 31 March 1834 died age 15 weeks
urial: 29 Jun 1834 Low Hill Cemetery, Everton, Lancashire, England
Edward Evans - [Child] of John Evans & Elizth.
    Age: 15 wks.
    Abode: Myrtle Street
    Grave: 7363
    Cause of Death: Bowl. Comps.