Author Topic: St. Ninians Birth Records  (Read 3909 times)

Offline FindinFamily

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St. Ninians Birth Records
« on: Tuesday 14 November 17 20:41 GMT (UK) »
I have a death certificate for Helen Davie Edmond from 1886 which states that she was 60 when she died.  I believe the names listed for her parents may be incorrect as the family strictly followed Scottish naming procedure.  If she was 60 when she died, she would have been born in 1826, however I have a marriage certificate from 1841 showing that she married Peter Edmond.  If she was born in 1826, she would have only been 15.  Not sure where to go with this.  I would like to find out exactly when she was born, and who her parents were.  Census records all show that she was born in St. Ninians

Offline CaroleW

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Re: St. Ninians Birth Records
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 15 November 17 00:27 GMT (UK) »
Her maiden name was Davie for searching purposes

Quote
Census records all show that she was born in St. Ninians

The 1851 shows her b 1818 St Ninians but living in Balfron.  1861 shows 1820 and b Balfron

1871 - 1826 b Balfron indexed as Ellen     1881 - 1819 b Balfron

Quote
I believe the names listed for her parents may be incorrect

What were the names?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline FindinFamily

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Re: St. Ninians Birth Records
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 15 November 17 01:46 GMT (UK) »
Names of parents are listed as Mary Wright and James Davie

Offline CaroleW

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Re: St. Ninians Birth Records
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 15 November 17 01:48 GMT (UK) »
Can you confirm that her birthplace is not St Ninians on all census records to ensure I have the right person?

Only the 1851 gives that as her birthplace
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)


Offline FindinFamily

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Re: St. Ninians Birth Records
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 15 November 17 02:07 GMT (UK) »
1851 and 1861 show St  Ninians, 1861 shows Balfron and 1881 shows Fintry

Offline FindinFamily

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Re: St. Ninians Birth Records
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 15 November 17 02:08 GMT (UK) »
*1871 shows Balfron

Offline Forfarian

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Re: St. Ninians Birth Records
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 15 November 17 10:00 GMT (UK) »
Names of parents are listed as Mary Wright and James Davie
I take it that these are the parents listed on her death certificate. Who registered the death?

The 1851 lists her children as Thomas, James, Agnes, Elizabeth and Helen. I note that it also gives her age as 33, which if accurate means she was born in 1817/1818, not in 1826. The IGI also lists a son William.

Despite Carol's pointers above, I have failed to find her in the SP index to the 1861, 1871 or 1881 census. There is a 62-year-old Hellan Edmonds, born Balfron, in 1881 in Bonhill, but she is Helen McFarlane, widow of a different Peter Edmonds.

Is Peter the one who died in 1859? Does his death certificate give his parents as Thomas Edmond and Elizabeth Ewing? Who registered the death?

I assume you are expecting her parents to be James Davie and Agnes?


Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline FindinFamily

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Re: St. Ninians Birth Records
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 15 November 17 16:44 GMT (UK) »
Just checked the death certificates of Helen and Peter again.  Helen's showed she died on Nov 16, 1886    at 60 years of age.  Parents are listed as John Davie and Mary Wright.  DC is signed by her son Thomas.  Peter's death certificate shows he died on April 16, 1859.  Parents are listed as James Edmond and Elizabeth Ewing. (I show Elizabeth Ewing married to Thomas Edmond, and since Peter and Helen's first child was named Thomas, I assumed this was correct, however their second child was named James, so now I am very confused.  Either way, none of their children are named John or Mary, so I still believe the info for Helen may be incorrect.  I also show that when Peter and Helen were married in 1841, she was of the parish or Kirkintilloch, not sure if that helps in any way.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: St. Ninians Birth Records
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 15 November 17 18:16 GMT (UK) »
Hmmmm. You do seem to have quite a conundrum.

You have Helen Davie, born in Stirlingshire around 1817/1820, living in Kirkintilloch in 1841 when she got married, saying in 1851 that she was born in St Ninians but afterwards that she was born in Balfron or Fintry, dying in 1886, death registered by her son who almost certainly got her age wrong and who may have got her parents wrong as well.

Comparing the 1841 and 1851 censuses, it looks as if Helen Davie is the otherwise unnamed Mrs Edmond at Lernock House in Balfron with Peter E, also 25, and Thomas E, 20, who is probably her brother-in-law. However this gives her age as 25 (which, because adults' ages in 1841 were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest multiple of 5 years, means anything from 25 to 29, and if accurate implies a birth date between 8 June 1811 and 7 June 1816) and her birthplace as outside Stirlingshire. This is inconsistent with the information she gave in later years.

I can't honestly think of any easy way to progress this. If one had unlimited time and funds, one might look at all available death certificates of people surnamed Davie, in the hope of finding possible siblings (either people with parents James Davie and Agnes/Ann/Nancy or people with parents John D and Mary Wright) but even that won't work if Helen was born illegitimate or had no siblings.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.