Author Topic: GRO online search term clarification  (Read 954 times)

Offline Milliepede

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GRO online search term clarification
« on: Thursday 16 November 17 11:02 GMT (UK) »
I just can't get my head around "phonetically similar" versus "similar sounding" variations of a surname.

Can anyone explain simply what the difference is please?

Thank you
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

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Offline jim1

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Re: GRO online search term clarification
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 16 November 17 11:05 GMT (UK) »
Must say I've wondered that myself. I can only assume that it includes names that are variations on the spelling of the name as well as names that sound similar.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
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Online KGarrad

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Re: GRO online search term clarification
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 16 November 17 14:10 GMT (UK) »
"Phonetically Similar Variations" uses a metaphone algorithm.
"Similar Sounding Variations" uses a soundex algorithm.

See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundex
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline Milliepede

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Re: GRO online search term clarification
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 16 November 17 14:44 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Can anyone explain simply

That's even more complicated  :-\

Perhaps an example would help me differentiate.

Say the name Smith can sound like Piff would that be a soundex algorithm?

What would Smith be under the other option?
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

Offline josey

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Re: GRO online search term clarification
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 16 November 17 14:58 GMT (UK) »
What would Smith be under the other option?
Smythe?
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Online Melbell

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Re: GRO online search term clarification
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 16 November 17 14:59 GMT (UK) »
I too am confused.  I think GRO could come up with something simpler for ordinary customers.  I try one variation for the surname, and then perhaps the other one for the first name, get nothing, or names which seem to me nothing like the 'original' search name.....then I forget which option I've already done, get even more confused, repeat my search without meaning to, etc. etc.!!!

I'm glad it's not just me.

Melbell  ::)

Online KGarrad

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Re: GRO online search term clarification
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 16 November 17 15:10 GMT (UK) »
Soundex algorithms convert all words to a letter plus 3 digits ;D
So, Smith becomes S530 (5 represents M or N; 3 represents D or T; vowels and H are disregarded).

Both Soundex and Metaphone are intended for computer programs.

For example, we can easily distinguish between Smith, Smyth and Sinnott - but a computer doesn't see similarities (because it uses exact matching). Replacing the names by a code makes things easier (for the computer program!) but far from perfect. Smith, Smyth and Sinnott all have a Soundex code of S530.

Metaphone was developed to try to improve on this - but it is necessarily complicated!


I always use the Sounds Similar Variation on the GRO site.
I only use Phonetic Variations if I can't find what I want.

I also try not to mix-and-match!
I would rather search on a blank forename, and select from the results found.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline Milliepede

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Re: GRO online search term clarification
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 16 November 17 15:15 GMT (UK) »
I wish I hadn't asked  ;D 

but thank you  :-*
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

Offline josey

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Re: GRO online search term clarification
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 16 November 17 15:21 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the explanation, KGarrad, I like knowing how things work.
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON