Author Topic: Birth info for Woods 1866 -Deptford  (Read 885 times)

Online solidrock

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Re: Birth info for Woods 1866 -Deptford
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 25 November 17 09:01 GMT (UK) »
I think Deptford come under Greenwich area so this could be him...

Arthur William Wood. 1868  S Quarter in GREENWICH  Volume 01D  Page 730

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Offline ju1

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Re: Birth info for Woods 1866 -Deptford
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 25 November 17 09:31 GMT (UK) »
Him

I was just looking at that birthm Yes it certainly fits though no mothers maiden name.

I usually assume that if the mother is unmarried it might give no maiden name or sometimes the given name and maiden name are the same. But as he gives his father as Charles it would look like Wood/s is his fathers name. I will send for this certificate and see.

Still no luch finding him on 1871/1881/1891 cebsus.

Thanks you for your support!

Ju
Armitage, Slaithwaite, huddersfield.
Calvert, Thornton, Bradford.
Pickles, Thornton, Bradford.
Rawlings, Somerset.
Clay, Slaithwaite, Huddersfield.
Clayton, Preston, Lanc's
Croston, Preston, Lanc's
Crossley, Preston, Lanc's
Jackson, Preston, Lanc's
Woods poss Preston
Moses, Monmouthshire
Foster, Thornton, Bradford.
gallop, Chew Stoke, Somerset
Shaw, Halifax
Holdsworth, Bingley/Keighley

This information is Crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline AMBLY

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Re: Birth info for Woods 1866 -Deptford
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 25 November 17 10:44 GMT (UK) »
His fathers name is Charles deceased at time of marriage (1933)
His name on this is given as Arthur William WOOD despite being Woods on everything else including all his childrens birth certs.

He was WOOD on the 1901 Census

I usually assume that if the mother is unmarried it might give no maiden name or sometimes the given name and maiden name are the same. But as he gives his father as Charles it would look like Wood/s is his fathers name. I will send for this certificate and see.

It was extremely common for illegitimate persons to put a wrong name, or a cobbled together name, of a father on a Marriage record. For example, sometimes they put the first name of a stepfather or a grandfather, but not the surname, instead just using the name they were born with (eg WOODS)

He married the women he had been living with since at least 1901 in 1933! She was in reality still married to another chap but left him for Arthur around 1899. I can only summise that it took that long to get a divorce in order to marry Arthur.

Prior to around WW1, Divorce in England was rare, expensive and difficult - even for those in the upper classes. Could it be rather, that the legal spouse only died around 1933?

Here's a possible:

1871: At 17 Edward Street West, Deptford , Kent

 RG10/ Piece 746;/ Folio 32A/ Pg5
Head: Charles TURNER 43, Boiler Maker, b London, Middlesex
Wife: Mary Ann TURNER 50, b London, Middlesex
Son: William John TURNER 21, unm, Hammerer Iron Works, b London, Middlesex
Dau: Mary Ann TURNER 18, unm, b London, Middlesex
Grandson:  Robert WOOD 5, b Greenwich, Kent
Grandson: Arthur WOOD 2, b Deptford, Kent
Visitor: Charles ASHWOOD 20, visitor, Sail maker, b Crawley, Surrey

GRO BIRTH Registrations:

Robert George WOOD, 1863, Greenwich - mms -----
Arthur William WOOD, 1868, Greenwich - mms -----

William John TURNER, 1849, Dec Qtr,  St Luke Middlesex - mms WOOD
Mary Ann TURNER 1852, St Luke Middlesex - mms WOOD

BAPTISM 1849 At Lukes Finsbury:
William John TURNER, born 18th Oct, bap 11 Nov 1849
Parents: William & Mary Ann TURNER, White Cross Street. Occ: Porter

and  after the birth/baptism, the ....

MARRIAGE: January 16th 1850, St Andrew Holborn
Charles TURNER, full age, bachelor, Porter, of Charles Street.
       Father: William TURNER, Painter & Glazier
Mary Ann WOOD, full age spinster, of Charles Street.
       Father: John WOOD, Sawyer
Witness: Samuel Major HICKS and Edward MALLETT Junr.

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline ju1

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Re: Birth info for Woods 1866 -Deptford
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 25 November 17 11:07 GMT (UK) »
Yes I agree that him giving his fathers name as Charles may not be reliable. He hasn't been honest on census returns stating Mary Ann was his wife on both 1901 and 1911, he even says they have been married for 18yrs.
I too now wonder if her first husband dies around 1933 hence the marriage.
Thank you for the possible 1871 census entry, i will keep that on file and see what the birth cert turn up.
Thank you for your assistance,

ju
Armitage, Slaithwaite, huddersfield.
Calvert, Thornton, Bradford.
Pickles, Thornton, Bradford.
Rawlings, Somerset.
Clay, Slaithwaite, Huddersfield.
Clayton, Preston, Lanc's
Croston, Preston, Lanc's
Crossley, Preston, Lanc's
Jackson, Preston, Lanc's
Woods poss Preston
Moses, Monmouthshire
Foster, Thornton, Bradford.
gallop, Chew Stoke, Somerset
Shaw, Halifax
Holdsworth, Bingley/Keighley

This information is Crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ju1

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Re: Birth info for Woods 1866 -Deptford
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 25 November 17 11:13 GMT (UK) »
I notice that on the 1881 census for the Tuner Family that both Robert and Arthur are now listed as Turner.

Ju
Armitage, Slaithwaite, huddersfield.
Calvert, Thornton, Bradford.
Pickles, Thornton, Bradford.
Rawlings, Somerset.
Clay, Slaithwaite, Huddersfield.
Clayton, Preston, Lanc's
Croston, Preston, Lanc's
Crossley, Preston, Lanc's
Jackson, Preston, Lanc's
Woods poss Preston
Moses, Monmouthshire
Foster, Thornton, Bradford.
gallop, Chew Stoke, Somerset
Shaw, Halifax
Holdsworth, Bingley/Keighley

This information is Crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ju1

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Re: Birth info for Woods 1866 -Deptford
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 30 November 17 16:11 GMT (UK) »
I think Deptford come under Greenwich area so this could be him...

Arthur William Wood. 1868  S Quarter in GREENWICH  Volume 01D  Page 730

This certificate has now arrived -
Born - 29th August 18 Sydney terrace, Edward St, West Deptford.
Arthur William Wood
Fathers details are left blank.
Mother Emma Wood

I'm not sure what to think now, it could be my chap, it's a good fit.

ju
Armitage, Slaithwaite, huddersfield.
Calvert, Thornton, Bradford.
Pickles, Thornton, Bradford.
Rawlings, Somerset.
Clay, Slaithwaite, Huddersfield.
Clayton, Preston, Lanc's
Croston, Preston, Lanc's
Crossley, Preston, Lanc's
Jackson, Preston, Lanc's
Woods poss Preston
Moses, Monmouthshire
Foster, Thornton, Bradford.
gallop, Chew Stoke, Somerset
Shaw, Halifax
Holdsworth, Bingley/Keighley

This information is Crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Birth info for Woods 1866 -Deptford
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 02 December 17 00:33 GMT (UK) »
With the address off the 1868 Birth Cert and the 1871 Census being as good as a match with Edward Street ( the house number 17 or 18 isn't an issue, people often moved to different dwellings in the same street; the addition of 'Sydney Terrace' on the Birth cert also isn't an issue) - I think you could be pretty much assured the 1868 birth cert is for the boy in the 1871 Census.

As to whether he is also your g-gf, it's looking very reasonable to say he is.
The name, with the middle name - Arthur William, is a match.
The name Charles given as his father of your g-gf's marriage lines - matches the father figure in the 1871 Census.

I would be looking for an Emma WOOD, being either a daughter of Charles and Mary Ann, or maybe a younger sister of Mary Ann - or as outlined below an illegitimate daughter of Mary Annů.


In the 1881 Census you've found and mentioned in Deptford:
RG11  Piece 705/ Folio/ 101/ Page52

the boys Robert and Arthur, and now listed as sons age 14 and 12. 

The age of Robert in the 1871 (5) and 1881 (14) Census, doesn't match the 1863 Birth registration  (I'd been hoping the 1871 Census age was a mistake) but I'd still be curious to see if the 1863 Birth is the same mother as the 1868 for Arthur?

Charles and Mary Ann are already found in Deptford in 1851, 1871 and 1881.  The only child with them in those 3 Census is a son named William (aged 1 in 1851,  age 21 in 1871 and age 31 in 1881).

But here is the 1861 Census for the family:
17 Clifton Road, Deptford
RG 9  Piece  393 / Folio 58/ Page 11
Head: Charles TURNER, 34, Labourer at ?Sewers?, b Middlesex St Lukes
Wife: Mary A TURNER 39, Laundress, b Canterbury Kent
Dau: Anna TURNER 15, Laundress, b Southwark, Surrey
Son: William TURNER 11, b St Lukes, Middlesex
Dau: Mary A TURNER 8, b St Lukes, Middlesex
Brother: Richard TURNER 32, unm, Police Constable, b Nuthurst, Sussex

Now there are two more TURNER children:

* Anna, born about 1846 (before they married) who would be about 22 in 1868 - and about 17 in 1863 (when Arthur's older brother Robert WOOD was born)

* Mary A, born about 1853 (within the marriage) who would be about 15 in 1868, but only 10 in 1863.

I would turn to 'Anna' first as being the potential mother 'Emma'  for your g-gf and of Robert. She may be a WOOD by birth and not Charles' Turner's daughter

So where is she in 1851?

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Online solidrock

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Re: Birth info for Woods 1866 -Deptford
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 02 December 17 03:13 GMT (UK) »
There is this Emma Wood...

Emma Wood. 1850  S Quarter in GREENWICH  Volume 05  Page 244  mmn Spencer.