Author Topic: Charles Gibbs (b1840) Pinvin/Pershore  (Read 1075 times)

Offline .Martha.

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Charles Gibbs (b1840) Pinvin/Pershore
« on: Friday 17 November 17 20:39 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Charles Gibbs was born about 1840 in Pinvin, Worcestershire, and married Ann Collins in 1857 or 1859 (I can't remember off the top of my head!)
The had three children, one who died at birth. In 1864 he abandoned them and was later imprisoned because of this in 1866 for 3 months in Pershore. During the time he was missing it is believed he was in Knighton, Radnorshire (I have no idea why...)

However, I can't find him at all after his imprisonment. I wonder if perhaps he changed his name? He was still alive as far as I know as Ann continues to describe herself as married on the census up until her second marriage in 1886.

Any help would be great :)
Thank you

Offline Annette7

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Re: Charles Gibbs (b1840) Pinvin/Pershore
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 18 November 17 02:42 GMT (UK) »
I have a possibility for him but it's somewhat complicated.

On 1891 Census I found a Charles Gibbs bc.1843 Pinvin, Worcs. married to a Sarah bc.1854 Hett, Durham and 5 children, living in Birmingham.

Checked births/census and there wasn't a Charles bc.1843 Pinvin so thought he was worth investigating further.   

From births of the children on GRO Index mmn was Chrisop!

Nice to have an uncommon surname to search for - Hett came under registration district of Durham and a Sarah Chrishop was registered Dec.1853 Durham (no other possibilities anywhere near that date).

Now it starts getting complicated - Sarah Chrisop married in March qtr.1873 Durham to a Frederick Charles Gibson - eldest daughter Alice Jane was registered as Gibson mmn Chrisop in March qtr.1874 Durham - next 4 children born in Birmingham, can't find corresponding birth in GRO index for Sarah Ann bc.1879 mmn Chrisop under either Gibson or Gibbs but the next 3 children all registered as Gibbs mmn Chrisop.

However, gets more complicated.   In 1881 family of Charles, Sarah, and eldest 2 daughters are in Birmingham with Charles shown as bc.1845 Newcastle, Northumberland ???.   This threw me for a while but I persevered as wife Sarah and both daughters were identical.   In 1901 - still in Birmingham - he is shown as Frederick C. Gibbs bc.1840 Pinvin and died as Frederick Charles Gibbs in Dec.qtr.1908 Birmingham (bc.1839).    His daughter Sarah Ann married an Ernest Hughes in 1901 and marriage entry shows father as Frederick Charles Gibbs.

So, we have a Charles Gibbs bc.1840 Pinvin, supposedly a Frederick Charles Gibbs b.1839-1845 (depending on what census you use) also born in Pinvin but there is no such birth for the latter and he doesn't seem to exist.   Plus the man who married Sarah Chrisop married as Frederick Charles Gibson with eldest dau. born Gibson too and then by 1881 he's Charles Gibbs (with totally different age/birthplace), Charles Gibbs bc.1843 Pinvin in 1891 and then in 1901 he's Frederick C. Gibbs bc.1840 Pinvin.

Since there is no Frederick Charles born as either Gibbs/Gibson in Pershore Reg.District (Pinvin) ca.1840 I think that he may well be your Charles Gibbs who covered his tracks and not getting found out by marrying Sarah Chrisop under the name Frederick Charles Gibson in 1873, first child registered Gibson and then he becomes Charles Gibbs in 1881 and 1891, Frederick C. Gibbs in 1901 - other children all born as Gibbs.   Unfortunately, the 1873 marriage details don't seem to be available online so don't know how, as Frederick Charles Gibson he described his status i.e. bachelor or widower (both of which would have been a lie anyway). 

Apart from the 1881 census' birthplace (perhaps the enumerator made a mistake) all the other census show Pinvin, Worcestershire as place of birth.

Something to consider anyway - I feel sure it's the same person.

Annette 
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Offline .Martha.

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Re: Charles Gibbs (b1840) Pinvin/Pershore
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 18 November 17 20:58 GMT (UK) »
I have a possibility for him but it's somewhat complicated.

On 1891 Census I found a Charles Gibbs bc.1843 Pinvin, Worcs. married to a Sarah bc.1854 Hett, Durham and 5 children, living in Birmingham.

Checked births/census and there wasn't a Charles bc.1843 Pinvin so thought he was worth investigating further.   

From births of the children on GRO Index mmn was Chrisop!

Nice to have an uncommon surname to search for - Hett came under registration district of Durham and a Sarah Chrishop was registered Dec.1853 Durham (no other possibilities anywhere near that date).

Now it starts getting complicated - Sarah Chrisop married in March qtr.1873 Durham to a Frederick Charles Gibson - eldest daughter Alice Jane was registered as Gibson mmn Chrisop in March qtr.1874 Durham - next 4 children born in Birmingham, can't find corresponding birth in GRO index for Sarah Ann bc.1879 mmn Chrisop under either Gibson or Gibbs but the next 3 children all registered as Gibbs mmn Chrisop.

However, gets more complicated.   In 1881 family of Charles, Sarah, and eldest 2 daughters are in Birmingham with Charles shown as bc.1845 Newcastle, Northumberland ???.   This threw me for a while but I persevered as wife Sarah and both daughters were identical.   In 1901 - still in Birmingham - he is shown as Frederick C. Gibbs bc.1840 Pinvin and died as Frederick Charles Gibbs in Dec.qtr.1908 Birmingham (bc.1839).    His daughter Sarah Ann married an Ernest Hughes in 1901 and marriage entry shows father as Frederick Charles Gibbs.

So, we have a Charles Gibbs bc.1840 Pinvin, supposedly a Frederick Charles Gibbs b.1839-1845 (depending on what census you use) also born in Pinvin but there is no such birth for the latter and he doesn't seem to exist.   Plus the man who married Sarah Chrisop married as Frederick Charles Gibson with eldest dau. born Gibson too and then by 1881 he's Charles Gibbs (with totally different age/birthplace), Charles Gibbs bc.1843 Pinvin in 1891 and then in 1901 he's Frederick C. Gibbs bc.1840 Pinvin.

Since there is no Frederick Charles born as either Gibbs/Gibson in Pershore Reg.District (Pinvin) ca.1840 I think that he may well be your Charles Gibbs who covered his tracks and not getting found out by marrying Sarah Chrisop under the name Frederick Charles Gibson in 1873, first child registered Gibson and then he becomes Charles Gibbs in 1881 and 1891, Frederick C. Gibbs in 1901 - other children all born as Gibbs.   Unfortunately, the 1873 marriage details don't seem to be available online so don't know how, as Frederick Charles Gibson he described his status i.e. bachelor or widower (both of which would have been a lie anyway). 

Apart from the 1881 census' birthplace (perhaps the enumerator made a mistake) all the other census show Pinvin, Worcestershire as place of birth.

Something to consider anyway - I feel sure it's the same person.

Annette

Hi Annette,

Wow thank you!!! I think I followed all of that, and it definitely does seem like it could be the same person, especially as his eldest sister was called Alice Jane... I guess to be certain I'd have to get his marriage certificate and see who the father is. Seems strange to keep changing between Gibbs and Gibson  ??? but I agree it is the same family through all the censuses.

Thank you so much again,
Martha  :)

Offline trish1120

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Re: Charles Gibbs (b1840) Pinvin/Pershore
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 19 November 17 09:57 GMT (UK) »
You may have all or some of this;

CHARLES Gibbs christened 16 February 1840, Pinvin, Worcestershire
Parents PHILIP/MARY
(Familysearch.Org)

Birth Reg;
GIBBS, CHARLES, Mothers maiden name MELEN ****
GRO Reference: 1840  M Quarter in PERSHORE UNION  Volume 18  Page 443

Philip GIBBS married Mary MELEN 25 February 1827, Saint Peter, Worcester, Worcestershire
(F/S.Org)

1841 Census look for Charles Gilb, 1, born in Worcs


BURIALS;
St Nicholas, Pinvin;
BENJAMIN Gibbs 1 July 1851 age 80
ELIZABETH JULIA Gibbs 26 May 1855 age 14
PHILIP Gibbs 5 Match 1878 age 73
(FreeREG)

BAPTISMS;
St Andrew, Pershore
MARY 7 Feb 1830
ANN 7 Feb 1830 (birth 10 Sept 1827)
Parents PHILIP/MARY, abode Pinvin, Father a Publican
BENJAMIN 23 Dec 1831, same Parents and abode, Father a Farmer
(FreeREG)

My gut tells me that Benjamin is likely Philips Father although I cant find a Baptism.

1841 Census
Pinvin
Benjamin GIBBS, 70, Independant
Thomas, 33, Farmer
Ann, 33
Thomas, 9
George, 5
Julia, 10mths

Trish :)

All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)


Offline trish1120

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Re: Charles Gibbs (b1840) Pinvin/Pershore
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 19 November 17 10:02 GMT (UK) »
1851 Benjamin is down as born c 1771 Birlingham, Worcestershire and has several Grandchildren with him.
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)