Author Topic: assistance regarding how my grandparents met  (Read 2931 times)

Offline half-spanish

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assistance regarding how my grandparents met
« on: Saturday 18 November 17 15:55 GMT (UK) »
There is a big mystery in my ancestry as to how my grandparents met and married. In 1908 my grandmother Annie Wyatt married my grandfather Ivor Wyatt. Yes, her maiden name was the same as her married name. I am aware that marriage between cousins did take place at that time but have not found any direct family link between these two Wyatt families. Ivor's family are  Dorset based, whereas her father originally came from Oxford. Ivor and Annie married and lived in Dorset, but immediately before her marriage - as per the 1901 census - she and her father were "in service" to a retired Indian Civil Servant & Barrister-at-law in Sydenham, Kent. Prior to the 1901 census her family were living in the slums of Forest Hill (she was born there in 1885). It is likely that the family got there "big break" in 1897, as that is when their employer retired back to England. But this is the mystery. As servants they would be unlikely to get sufficient time off to travel down to Dorset to meet her future husband's family and how did they even know of them!  Similarly, how did her future husbands family know of a prospective spouse working as a servant in Sydenham - especially as there was also a "class-divide". My grandmother's eventual father-in-law was a self-made man, and Ivor was a master butcher who had his own shop and separate slaughterhouse, not the normal type of husband for a servant born in the slums as per societal rules of that era!  Can anyone help me to possibly clear this mystery up?

Offline jennifer c

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Re: assistance regarding how my grandparents met
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 18 November 17 16:07 GMT (UK) »
Their employer George William Vidal was born in Torrington Devon and his father died in Bath, so there are some connections to the west country through their employer.

Jennifer
Stevens /Godfrey /Rudgley /Claridge/ Gipson /George /Bliss
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Offline grandarog

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Re: assistance regarding how my grandparents met
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 18 November 17 16:56 GMT (UK) »
Ivor could have been up to London visiting Smithfield meat market. Not that far across the river to Sydenham .They may have met on a visit to Crystal Palace. Another version Ivor may have been apprenticed to a butcher near places that Annie frequented. He could have just been sightseeing or doing the tour of London as part of his education. Also they may have met in Dorset if her employer entrained with his staff to visit relatives in the area. I don't think you will have much luck finding the real truth of their meeting but good luck with your quest.
WAGHORN/E
KENWARD
HARRIS
DIXON
MARSHALL
MERCER
CARE
FAGG
RUSSELL
WOODRUFF      

 All these  Families were Born and Bred in Kent

Offline Rena

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Re: assistance regarding how my grandparents met
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 18 November 17 18:53 GMT (UK) »
A butcher often had a farm to rear his own and to buy in sufficient numbers of cattle for his business and many businesses usually expanded when sons became old enough.   I can see two scenarios for how they met.  The junior butcher was sent further afield on business.  As mentioned above there is a connection between Dorset cattle and Sydenham, Kent, which meant the area became prosperous, thus drawing in people who needed feeding:-  (Genuki) "The formation of Sydenham Park, and the removal hither of the Crystal Palace, from Hyde Park, in October, 1851, upon the close of the great International Exhibition, tended much to the improvement of the neighbourhood."

Alternatively, the bride could have moved to Dorset for a better paid position.  My gt. grandmother born about the same time moved from one county to Derbyshire where I found her as a young servant, then in the next census she had moved to the north east to look after the children of a doctor, which is where she met my gt.grandfather.

A third option is; she fleetingly met a handsome young man, they corresponded and eventually married.  Hmm, where have I heard that before?  Oh - it was meeee  :D
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke


Offline half-spanish

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Re: assistance regarding how my grandparents met
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 21 November 17 10:19 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Rena for your comments. There is a possibility in both scenarios. Ivor's father did originally have a butchers shop but he sold up about 1902 as he seems to have gone in for property development. He originally had the shop (with a house above) plus his own large Victorian house (built about 1890) - the kind that you would expect to have a few servants in. (I have a picture of this large house). When he died in 1923,24 properties are mentioned in his will!
With regard to my grandmother moving down to this area to get a better position. There were certainly enough homes here where servants would be employed, but how would she have found out about a possible position 100 odd miles away! Best wishes, Carlos

Offline Marmalady

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Re: assistance regarding how my grandparents met
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 21 November 17 10:38 GMT (UK) »

With regard to my grandmother moving down to this area to get a better position. There were certainly enough homes here where servants would be employed, but how would she have found out about a possible position 100 odd miles away! Best wishes, Carlos

Newspapers were full of adverts for domestic staff
Plus there were Domestic Agencies for finding staff / positions
Wainwright - Yorkshire
Whitney - Herefordshire
Watson -  Northamptonshire
Trant - Yorkshire
Helps - all
Needham - Derbyshire
Waterhouse - Derbyshire
Northing - all

Offline half-spanish

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Re: assistance regarding how my grandparents met
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 21 November 17 11:09 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Jennifer for your comment.  Considering I feel that this time in service to George William Vidal and his family is important in my Grandmother's life story, I have been finding out as much about him as possible. Best wishes, Carlos

Offline half-spanish

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Re: assistance regarding how my grandparents met
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 21 November 17 11:12 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Marmalady for your comment. Would a Coachman buy a newspaper!? Best wishes, Carlos

Offline Marmalady

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Re: assistance regarding how my grandparents met
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 21 November 17 11:57 GMT (UK) »
Staff may or may not buy their own newspapers, but they would certainly have access to those bought by their employer
Wainwright - Yorkshire
Whitney - Herefordshire
Watson -  Northamptonshire
Trant - Yorkshire
Helps - all
Needham - Derbyshire
Waterhouse - Derbyshire
Northing - all