Author Topic: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria  (Read 1404 times)

Offline Janelle

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #9 on: Monday 20 November 17 10:33 GMT (UK) »
Could this be his death?

WILLIAMS George William
Parents unknown
At Kew Lunatic Asylum  60 years  1892  Reg#10727

https://www.prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/health-and-welfare/mental-health-records-1849-1912
WILLIAMS George William  60 years  Born London  Occupation Miner
Hospital record  2 Aug 1892  Kew
Source Kew Asylum case books 1871-1912.  VPRS 7398/P1 13.

https://www.prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/inquests-and-other-coronial-records/inquests-deaths-deposition
WILLIAMS George William
Cause of death Acute inflammation of lungs
Location of inquest: Kew Asylum Date of inquest 31 Aug 1892

....

Cando

This does look very interesting, thankyou Cando !!  ;D

I'll go shopping for the cert after I look at the other links, and will add here what I find.  ;)

Poor man, if this is his end, and his occupation would probably be the root of it.
Margaret died of cancer of the mouth, how dreadful.  :(

Thankyou, again, RC'ers for coming to my aid.   :)

Salute,
Janelle
Goodhind Coleman Wes(t)cott Taylor Tuck Sa(u)nders Warren How(e) Sminney Radford Frost Frank(e) Pool(e) Se(a)rle Moore Quick Veysey Ware Stoat(e) Kerslake Channon Drake Melhuish Hodge(s) in Devon;
Warren Baker Carpenter Crocombe Slocombe Greenslade Edbrooke Houndel Webber Tidball Sully Tout Veysey Wheddon in Somerset;
Bla(y)ney Johnston Crozier Moore Fleming Moffitt in Fermanagh and possibly Moffitt in Tyrone; Killen Chapman in Down; Dwyer Enright in Limerick; Linehan Murphy Driscoll in Cork

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Offline Janelle

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #10 on: Monday 20 November 17 12:02 GMT (UK) »
Hello Cando,

I have been looking and can't find how you have GWW's occupation, age, or origin as London.

I can get the inquest paper from the 2nd link.
Poor chap, taken away from his family and life, he went down hill real fast, very sad.

Please help me with the first.
Feeling a bit silly, :-[ but right now I reckon the PROV website is silly too :P  :-[


>>>

https://www.prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/health-and-welfare/mental-health-records-1849-1912
WILLIAMS George William  60 years  Born London  Occupation Miner
Hospital record  2 Aug 1892  Kew
Source Kew Asylum case books 1871-1912.  VPRS 7398/P1 13.

https://www.prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/inquests-and-other-coronial-records/inquests-deaths-deposition
WILLIAMS George William
Cause of death Acute inflammation of lungs
Location of inquest: Kew Asylum Date of inquest 31 Aug 1892

>>>

Cando
Goodhind Coleman Wes(t)cott Taylor Tuck Sa(u)nders Warren How(e) Sminney Radford Frost Frank(e) Pool(e) Se(a)rle Moore Quick Veysey Ware Stoat(e) Kerslake Channon Drake Melhuish Hodge(s) in Devon;
Warren Baker Carpenter Crocombe Slocombe Greenslade Edbrooke Houndel Webber Tidball Sully Tout Veysey Wheddon in Somerset;
Bla(y)ney Johnston Crozier Moore Fleming Moffitt in Fermanagh and possibly Moffitt in Tyrone; Killen Chapman in Down; Dwyer Enright in Limerick; Linehan Murphy Driscoll in Cork

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
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Offline cando

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #11 on: Monday 20 November 17 23:50 GMT (UK) »
The information is from my own resource, an index to Kew Asylum case books 1871-1912.  VPRS 7398/P1 13 compiled by Marion BUTTON. Marion, now deceased compiled many indexes to information at PROV.   My transcription is accurate.  I have given you the link to search for the info at PROV.  I really don't like the PROV site either. I no longer have the patience to search for information.

This appears to be the year 1892 case books for male patients at Kew Asylum.  The information is not online and needs to be ordered for reading in PROV North Melbourne rooms.

Case Books of Male Patients
Unit number:    13
Description:    Case Book of Male Patients
Date range:    1892 -
Public access:    Open
Format:    VH1E
Location:    North Melbourne
This Unit is part of
Series number:    VPRS 7398
Consignment number:    P0001

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l2u/

Cando
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline judb

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 21 November 17 00:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi Janelle

I quite agree that there is no proven link between the Margaret HARPER you seek and the baptism in Chatham, Kent, as I said - very tenuous at best, and definitely not to be trusted.

Do you have birth certificates for any of the children?  I couldn't see any posted on the Ancestry trees but there's so many trees I may have missed one.  You say you are not as familiar with searching in Victoria so you may not be familiar with Victorian BMD records which are very comprehensive - depending, of course, on the knowledge/truthfulness of the informant.

Birth certificates:
 Date and place of birth;
 name of child and whether present or not;
 name of parents (including mother's maiden name);
 occupation of parents;
ages and birthplace of parents;
 date and place of marriage of parents;
 previous children of their marriage noting living or deceased;
 signature, description and address of the person who gave the information;
 names of witnesses;
 date and place of registration.

It's likely that the informant for a birth record is one of the parents so the information is contemporary rather than information on a death certificate given by someone who did not know the deceased until late in life.

You know, of course, that a digital record of the registry entry is downloadable.
https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/research-and-family-history/search-your-family-history
Worth a try perhaps!

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Janelle

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 21 November 17 11:02 GMT (UK) »
Thankyou Cando,

So pleased that you have Marion's PROV index and shared it with me.  :-*
George is less of a mystery now. I'll just go and flex the plastic at the bmd vic to get a download of his death cert.  8)

Salute
Janelle

The information is from my own resource, an index to Kew Asylum case books 1871-1912.  VPRS 7398/P1 13 compiled by Marion BUTTON. Marion, now deceased
>>>

Cando
Goodhind Coleman Wes(t)cott Taylor Tuck Sa(u)nders Warren How(e) Sminney Radford Frost Frank(e) Pool(e) Se(a)rle Moore Quick Veysey Ware Stoat(e) Kerslake Channon Drake Melhuish Hodge(s) in Devon;
Warren Baker Carpenter Crocombe Slocombe Greenslade Edbrooke Houndel Webber Tidball Sully Tout Veysey Wheddon in Somerset;
Bla(y)ney Johnston Crozier Moore Fleming Moffitt in Fermanagh and possibly Moffitt in Tyrone; Killen Chapman in Down; Dwyer Enright in Limerick; Linehan Murphy Driscoll in Cork

Offline cando

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 21 November 17 12:00 GMT (UK) »
Quite often information is scant on Victorian death certs for those who died in public institutions even if information was known by staff.

Cando
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Janelle

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 21 November 17 12:02 GMT (UK) »
The bmd vic site isn't working at the mo. How frustrating  :'( 
Can't get George's death cert !!

Thankyou Judith, for your advice,
Its as you say, its what is quoted by the informant and recorded by the registrar on the day. Margaret H and GWW were very young when they married, they might not have had any local extended family and so their children's knowledge of their history might have been sparse.
And GWW died at that awful hospital, probably without any family present to register his death. I'll try again tomorrow to get his d/c.  :)

Auntie's beau originally told me his Victorian born mum's history and gave me copies of
his b/c,
his mum's b/c - Elizabeth Ellen Chance 1907,
his mum's parents m/c - Margaret Williams and Job Chance 1899,
Margaret Chance formerly Williams - his mum's mum's d/c 1910.
Margaret Williams' b/c 1879,
Job Chance's b/c 1874

This Margaret Williams is a granddaughter of Margaret Harper and GWW.

I've downloaded 3 marriages and 1 death at $25 a pop to get to the right Margaret Harper.
I shall confer with Auntie's beau if he wants to be laying outfor more than GWW's d/c because he's only missing the ones for his ggp's, 3 x 25 if I leave out the b/c's.  :-\
They are not really needed by me to establish relationships, just evidence if desired.

Thanks again, Cando, Judith and Sue,
I shall be printing out this adventure to share with Auntie's beau  ;D

Salute,
Janelle
Goodhind Coleman Wes(t)cott Taylor Tuck Sa(u)nders Warren How(e) Sminney Radford Frost Frank(e) Pool(e) Se(a)rle Moore Quick Veysey Ware Stoat(e) Kerslake Channon Drake Melhuish Hodge(s) in Devon;
Warren Baker Carpenter Crocombe Slocombe Greenslade Edbrooke Houndel Webber Tidball Sully Tout Veysey Wheddon in Somerset;
Bla(y)ney Johnston Crozier Moore Fleming Moffitt in Fermanagh and possibly Moffitt in Tyrone; Killen Chapman in Down; Dwyer Enright in Limerick; Linehan Murphy Driscoll in Cork

Offline Janelle

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 21 November 17 12:10 GMT (UK) »
Messages crossed in cyberspace, Cando. Mabye nothing to gain from his d/c, as you say.

The inquest has the date of his death, and Auntie's beau can decide what we should be risking our cash on.
I think looking at his admission papers would be a better exercise.
But that means braving PROV's website again  ::)

Salute,
Janelle
Goodhind Coleman Wes(t)cott Taylor Tuck Sa(u)nders Warren How(e) Sminney Radford Frost Frank(e) Pool(e) Se(a)rle Moore Quick Veysey Ware Stoat(e) Kerslake Channon Drake Melhuish Hodge(s) in Devon;
Warren Baker Carpenter Crocombe Slocombe Greenslade Edbrooke Houndel Webber Tidball Sully Tout Veysey Wheddon in Somerset;
Bla(y)ney Johnston Crozier Moore Fleming Moffitt in Fermanagh and possibly Moffitt in Tyrone; Killen Chapman in Down; Dwyer Enright in Limerick; Linehan Murphy Driscoll in Cork

Offline cando

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 21 November 17 20:54 GMT (UK) »
I gave you the link in reply#11 to the case books and the files are not online. I took the info from my index and matched it with the resource info at PROV. You need to visit PROV.  Admission "papers" are possibly only a line in a register with his name, admission date etc.  I wouldn't bank on too much more info.

The link again to the resource at PROV with facility to order for reading in their rooms.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l2u/

Cando
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk