Author Topic: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria  (Read 3096 times)

Offline judb

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 21 November 17 23:36 GMT (UK) »
Does your friend have the birth certificate for his ancestor the 2nd son William Nathan b 1859 d 1895? 

Seems to me that this birth cert (or a cert for any of the children) should answer the questions about the birthplaces for George and Margaret - always assuming the correct information was given at the time! It would be the one I would be ordering first - they do get expensive!

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Janelle

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 22 November 17 21:09 GMT (UK) »
Oh you are right of course, Judith,  ;D :-[

I bought the death cert for GWW before I read your post oops,
The asylum folks knew nothing of his family - a dementia sufferer not forthcoming, understandably.  :-X
SO, went shopping again !!
and I'm attaching a snip from the download for William Nathan's b/c
and all will be revealed, drum roll, tata
Goodhind Coleman Wes(t)cott Taylor Tuck Sa(u)nders Warren How(e) Sminney Radford Frost Frank(e) Pool(e) Se(a)rle Moore Quick Veysey Ware Stoat(e) Kerslake Channon Drake Melhuish Hodge(s) in Devon;
Warren Baker Carpenter Crocombe Slocombe Greenslade Edbrooke Houndel Webber Tidball Sully Tout Veysey Wheddon in Somerset;
Bla(y)ney Johnston Crozier Moore Fleming Moffitt in Fermanagh and possibly Moffitt in Tyrone; Killen Chapman in Down; Dwyer Enright in Limerick; Linehan Murphy Driscoll in Cork

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Offline cando

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 22 November 17 22:25 GMT (UK) »
Why do think the asylum staff knew nothing about his family?  The Police Constable present at the inquest would be the informant on his death certificate.  This was normal procedure.  Occasionally the deceased marital status will be noted and occasionally the spouse's name and if you a lucky, the number of chn.

Of course you already had the information that George W was born London from the index to the Kew Asylum Case Books.  There may be more information in the case books but doubtful about the admissions register.  A visit to PROV may be necessary if you want more information about the few weeks George was a patient at Kew.

You would need to see his death certificate to find his place of burial however in 1892 it was possibly Melbourne General Cemetery as there is no record at Kew Cemetery, Coburg or St Kilda and Springvale and Fawkner weren't operating until 1901 and 1906 respectively.

MGC burial records are not online but I usually receive a response for information within 24 hours.    mgc@smct.org.au   Give as much detail as possible with your request.

Good luck.
Cando :)

Edit I see you have his death cert.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Janelle

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 22 November 17 23:24 GMT (UK) »
 :) GWW was buried at Melbourne cemetery according to his d/c.

We can’t know much else new though from his d/c.
His birth year is different, the place is vague, family unknown, married is written in brackets

GWW is the informant for William Nathan’s b/c, 1859, and gives his age as 38 so born c 1821, London.
He states Margaret Harper is 26 so she was born c 1833 and birthplace Chatham, England. So that gets us back to Kent?

He saysor is recorded as saying they only had one previous child, deceased, but I have Mary Ann b 1855 and George Oswald (or Haswell on his baptism transcription) b 1857.
Mary Ann I am sure married William Windsor.
Maybe George junior died as a baby because I don’t find him as an adult. No marriage or electoral roll.

You know what, guys - I should be at work so will get back to this later. Procrasta-rootschatting  ;D ;D the best kind   8) ;D
Goodhind Coleman Wes(t)cott Taylor Tuck Sa(u)nders Warren How(e) Sminney Radford Frost Frank(e) Pool(e) Se(a)rle Moore Quick Veysey Ware Stoat(e) Kerslake Channon Drake Melhuish Hodge(s) in Devon;
Warren Baker Carpenter Crocombe Slocombe Greenslade Edbrooke Houndel Webber Tidball Sully Tout Veysey Wheddon in Somerset;
Bla(y)ney Johnston Crozier Moore Fleming Moffitt in Fermanagh and possibly Moffitt in Tyrone; Killen Chapman in Down; Dwyer Enright in Limerick; Linehan Murphy Driscoll in Cork

Offline judb

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 23 November 17 00:20 GMT (UK) »
Edit to add:
This is not the right man as there is a digitised letters of administration for this man showing his widow as Elizabeth WILLIAMS - see post below.


There is a George William WILLIAMS baptism at St Mary's, Lambeth, 1 November, 1826.  Parents: John Mark WILLIAMS, surgeon and Charlotte; living at Elizabeth Place. This doesn't quite fit with the birthdate shown on other documents; there is no mention in the parish record of the age of this child.

This transcription of a headstone for the above person shows that it's not the same George William WILLIAMS as the man who died at Kew in 1892

Victoria, Australia, Cemetery Records and Headstone Transcriptions, 1844-1997
Name   George Wm Williams
Death Date   29 Mar 1888
Burial Place   Victoria, Australia
Cemetery   Melbourne
Section   L
Grave Number   665/666
Religion   C-E

Left side: Sacred to the memory of Charlotte relict of John Mark WILLIAMS Surgeon, London. She died 30 Oct 1862 age 64 yrs. Rev.XXI.4. Right side: Sacred to the memory of George Wm. WILLIAMS second son of John Mark WILLIAMS Surgeon, London born 5 Oct 1826, died 29 Mar 1888 also Susannah dearly beloved wife of the above born 30 Nov 1825, died 13 Jun 1870. St.John XI.25.26.


Is it quite certain that your man is the death in 1892 or could he possibly be this man? The age doesn't match exactly.  Will dig a bit further to see there's any other records of this chap.

Judith

DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline judb

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 23 November 17 00:46 GMT (UK) »
The 'wrong' George WILLIAMS shown above died intestate on 21 December 1888.  His occupation is given as 'miner' and his residence Talbot, Vic.  Letters of administration were granted to his widow in 1894, listed as Elizabeth WILLIAMS of 134 Edward St, Brunswick.

prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54

Some parallels to the life of your man, though.

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cando

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 23 November 17 00:51 GMT (UK) »
The GWW who died in 1888 at Caulfield was an accountant and was married to a Susanna THORPE and after her death to a Catherine DUGGAN  I did have a look at him previously.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article6113922
WILLIAMS. —On the 29th inst., at the residence of his son-in-law, Elliott Moore-Cairnes, North road, Caulfield, George William, second son of the late John Mark Williams, surgeon, London, in his 62nd year


Cando
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cando

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 23 November 17 01:32 GMT (UK) »
Quote
He saysor is recorded as saying they only had one previous child, deceased, but I have Mary Ann b 1855 and George Oswald (or Haswell on his baptism transcription) b 1857.
Mary Ann I am sure married William Windsor.
Maybe George junior died as a baby because I don’t find him as an adult. No marriage or electoral roll.

Could it be one children living, one deceased.  Yes poor English I know but I've read stranger things on birth certificates.  If the infant death occurred shortly after birth, neither the birth nor death may have been registered.

And that's it from me :)

Cando
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Janelle

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Re: Margaret Harper c 1836 Wales - d 1910 Chewton, Victoria
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 23 November 17 11:42 GMT (UK) »
Yes, I think George William Williams' life and death as the husband of Margaret Harper is sorted.

Thankyou all for your help.

Maybe the subject line should have been about him, as he overtook somewhat,  ;D :D ;)

Salute,
Janelle

Goodhind Coleman Wes(t)cott Taylor Tuck Sa(u)nders Warren How(e) Sminney Radford Frost Frank(e) Pool(e) Se(a)rle Moore Quick Veysey Ware Stoat(e) Kerslake Channon Drake Melhuish Hodge(s) in Devon;
Warren Baker Carpenter Crocombe Slocombe Greenslade Edbrooke Houndel Webber Tidball Sully Tout Veysey Wheddon in Somerset;
Bla(y)ney Johnston Crozier Moore Fleming Moffitt in Fermanagh and possibly Moffitt in Tyrone; Killen Chapman in Down; Dwyer Enright in Limerick; Linehan Murphy Driscoll in Cork