Author Topic: Marriage conundrum - Any Suggestions?  (Read 2998 times)

Offline Ceci

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Marriage conundrum - Any Suggestions?
« on: Wednesday 03 August 05 19:01 BST (UK) »
My great great grandfather was William Parkin Moon and two original documents for his marriages in 1847 & 1851 were passed down the family by my Grandfather, so I know these are for the right man. Now I have found an earlier marriage record, which is puzzling me.

1841 Aug 2,  St Pancras
William Parkin Moon, full age, Bachelor, Bag maker, Rose Alley, father Thos Moon, dead
Jane Thompson, Full age, Widow (and another scrawl, possibly spinster scribbled out), Rose Alley, father Robt Shipman, Labr
Witnesses William Knight & Mary Ann Moon

1847 Oct 25, St George the Martyr
William Parkin Moon, full age, Bachelor, Printer, 14 Eagle St, father Thomas Moon, Carpenter
Jane Shipman, Full age, 6 Great Ormond Yard, father Robt Shipman, Labourer
Witnesses John Chambers & Mary Connor

1851 March 24, St Pancras
William Parkin Moon, full age, Widower, Printer, Cobourg St, father Thomas Moon, Dead
Sophia Ann Darvell, full age, spinster, Stanhope St, father Edmund Darvell, Dead
Witnesses William Richard Elgie & Mary Ann Hiles

Also a few census details:
1841 In Rose Alley, St Andrew Holborn, (Address on 1st marriage record)
William Moon, 28, Bag maker, born London &
Jane, 27 born out of London
My Grandfather had a record of Jane Shipman’s baptism in 1813 in Sculcoates, part of Hull in Yorkshire

1841 French Horn Yard, St Andrew Holborn, Wm Knight, Mary Knight, Mary Moon, Susan Knight (? witnesses at first marriage)

1851 French Horn Yard, St Andrew, Holborn,
William Moon, head, 38 Paper bag maker, born St Andrews, Middlesex
Sophia Moon, wife, 26, born St Pancras,
William Moon, son, 17, paper bag maker, born Hull, Yorks

Is William Parkin Moon in the first marriage the same as in the later two? I know that mine was a paper bag maker later on as were some of his sons as I have evidence that was passed down by my Grandfather.
Is Jane the same person in the first two marriages?
If she is, then why is she a widow in 1841, but a spinster in 1847 and why is William still a bachelor in 1847?
Why did they get married twice and why two different addresses in 1847 if they were already married?
Where is the son William in the 1841 census? The only possible find for him I have so far is on the IGI, William Robert Shipman son of Jane Shipman, bap.14 Jan 1835 Sculcoates

If these are different people, then there seem to be an awful lot of coincidences.

Any suggestions or ideas on solving this would be most welcome.

Sorry it is such a long post,
Ceci


London - MOON DARVELL CRAGGS COLE DUTFIELD SAMSON WALLIS THOMPSON MURRAY TREGANOWAN BENDEL POTTERTON
North Yorkshire - DOBSON ALLANSON COOPER CLARK WARDLE STEEL FRANK
Dorset - KING (Blandford, Dorchester) KING PERCY (Sturminster Newton)
Cambridgeshire - LYON SIMPSON WINTER TABRAHAM HAWKES FYNCKELL
Norfolk - PRESS ROUSE STEWARD
Warwickshire - RUSSELL (Coventry)
Suffolk - PRESS WHYTE
Berkshire (Shrivenham) & Wiltshire - REEVES CARVEY MOXHAM TRINDER
Somerset (Porlock) HUISH

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Offline suttontrust

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Re: Marriage conundrum - Any Suggestions?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 03 August 05 19:14 BST (UK) »
Just a thought, but could the first Jane Shipman be the mother of the second?  Stranger things have happened.  (But the age is wrong, I see)  Or perhaps the first marriage was declared to be invalid for some reason. 
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Offline Ceci

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Re: Marriage conundrum - Any Suggestions?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 03 August 05 19:23 BST (UK) »
I hadn't thought of one being the mother of the other, but my Jane's mother was Margaret, so I don't think so. Maybe the first marriage was declared invalid, but does anyone know if it's possible to find out?
Ceci
London - MOON DARVELL CRAGGS COLE DUTFIELD SAMSON WALLIS THOMPSON MURRAY TREGANOWAN BENDEL POTTERTON
North Yorkshire - DOBSON ALLANSON COOPER CLARK WARDLE STEEL FRANK
Dorset - KING (Blandford, Dorchester) KING PERCY (Sturminster Newton)
Cambridgeshire - LYON SIMPSON WINTER TABRAHAM HAWKES FYNCKELL
Norfolk - PRESS ROUSE STEWARD
Warwickshire - RUSSELL (Coventry)
Suffolk - PRESS WHYTE
Berkshire (Shrivenham) & Wiltshire - REEVES CARVEY MOXHAM TRINDER
Somerset (Porlock) HUISH

Offline Carmela

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Re: Marriage conundrum - Any Suggestions?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 04 August 05 08:19 BST (UK) »
Hi Ceci,
The fact that "spinster" was crossed out and replaced by "widow" on the 1841 marriage cert. and the name "Thompson" , suggests to me that the same couple married twice. I think it is possible that Jane was still married to Mr. Thompson in 1841 and lied about being a widow. Perhaps, at first she pretended to be unmarried or let the clerk assume that she was a spinster, then when she gave her father's name as Shipman, it became necessary to change her condition to widow.

The dates of the two marriages, being about six years apart,
leads me to think that the first husband, Mr. thompson had deserted her or had been transported for seven years or more. After seven years, she would have been free to marry.
Perhaps, even though she and William had gone through an illegal marriage, they decided to make it legal, once the seven years had elapsed and so, the second marriage in 1847.
As to Jane reverting to her maiden name for the second marriage to William Moon, probably just covering her tracks
because of the illegal marriage (also, this is probably why William pretends to be a bachelor and the two addresses). I think the second marriage to William Moon would have been legal, no matter which name she used, as long as Mr. Thompson had been gone for seven years.

It looks like there may be another marriage record to find.
Of course, I may be wrong, but that's the best scenario that I can devise to explain why a couple would marry twice and I do think that it is the same Jane and William in both 1841 and 1847.

Cheers,
Carmela
 
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationararchives.gov.uk

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Offline piedstilt

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Re: Marriage conundrum - Any Suggestions?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 04 August 05 08:25 BST (UK) »
Most ingenious Carmela!

I, too, believe the first two marriages are between the same two pople, but I'm intrigued as to why William's occupation keeps switching between printer and paper bag maker. I bet they didn't have printed paper bags in those days ;D

Ros
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Ceci

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Re: Marriage conundrum - Any Suggestions?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 04 August 05 10:25 BST (UK) »
Thank you for your replies. I like that theory and it supports my own gut feeling that it was probably the same couple marrying twice. I will look for a marriage between Jane Shipman and a Thompson, so fingers crossed.

As for the question about Printer/paper bag maker, William’s occupation was paper bag maker on all the census records from 1851-1881 and his marriage records for 1847 and 1851 are the only official documents I have showing him as a printer. This is a the top of an accounts sheet showing the business address of his son Edmund, and my Grandfather wrote some notes on it which included:-

‘Edmund Moon was the elder brother of my father and they were in business together as E&H Moon. My father’s Christian name: Henry. Their father was a printer, and some of the bags used to be printed, but E Moon did not print them himself but gave them to a firm to be done.’

He goes on to say how kind Edmund & his wife were to him after his father died and that they virtually adopted him.

Many thanks for your help,
Ceci
London - MOON DARVELL CRAGGS COLE DUTFIELD SAMSON WALLIS THOMPSON MURRAY TREGANOWAN BENDEL POTTERTON
North Yorkshire - DOBSON ALLANSON COOPER CLARK WARDLE STEEL FRANK
Dorset - KING (Blandford, Dorchester) KING PERCY (Sturminster Newton)
Cambridgeshire - LYON SIMPSON WINTER TABRAHAM HAWKES FYNCKELL
Norfolk - PRESS ROUSE STEWARD
Warwickshire - RUSSELL (Coventry)
Suffolk - PRESS WHYTE
Berkshire (Shrivenham) & Wiltshire - REEVES CARVEY MOXHAM TRINDER
Somerset (Porlock) HUISH

Offline gogogadgetlegs

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Re: Marriage conundrum - Any Suggestions?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 16 June 06 16:43 BST (UK) »
Hi Ceci,
Just for your record,
Scxulcoates, Baptisms,
11th June 1813 Jane daur of Robert & Margaret Shipman, Mason St, sive publicanus, sive an officer in the customs,
Also had three more children.
best wishes,
Gogogagdgetlegs
Lincolnshire,   Andrew/s Jenkinson, 
Yorkshire,   Andrew/s, Watson, Norris, Simpson, Binnington, Willingham, Theakston, Kingdom, Brown, Fewson, Croforth, Boynton/Bointon, Jenkinson, Crawford/Croforth, Hessey, Harper, Mann, Worledge, Flatman.
Kent, Kingdom, Cosham,
Norfolk,   Worlidge, Flatman, Alden, West, Kett, Gathercole. Starkey
Suffolk,   Wallage, Worledge, Starkey
Nth Battleford, Canada, Worledge, Flatman


Census Info Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Ceci

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Re: Marriage conundrum - Any Suggestions?
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 17 June 06 15:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Gogogagdgetlegs,

Thanks for that. I now have baptisms for Robert Charles 1810, Robert 1812, Ann 1814, James Fitzgerald 1816, & Amelia & Charlotte 1818, But I'd be very interested if you have details of any other children.

Thanks, Ceci
London - MOON DARVELL CRAGGS COLE DUTFIELD SAMSON WALLIS THOMPSON MURRAY TREGANOWAN BENDEL POTTERTON
North Yorkshire - DOBSON ALLANSON COOPER CLARK WARDLE STEEL FRANK
Dorset - KING (Blandford, Dorchester) KING PERCY (Sturminster Newton)
Cambridgeshire - LYON SIMPSON WINTER TABRAHAM HAWKES FYNCKELL
Norfolk - PRESS ROUSE STEWARD
Warwickshire - RUSSELL (Coventry)
Suffolk - PRESS WHYTE
Berkshire (Shrivenham) & Wiltshire - REEVES CARVEY MOXHAM TRINDER
Somerset (Porlock) HUISH

Offline gogogadgetlegs

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Re: Marriage conundrum - Any Suggestions?
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 17 June 06 22:18 BST (UK) »
Hi Ceci,
No more children in Sculcoates after 1818 but i have put down baptisms for children as they include info you may not have
Robert Charles bpt 30/5/1810 born 6/5/1810
Robert bpt 10/2/1812 born 10/1/1812, Father Landing Waiter,
Amelia & Charlotte Twins, bpt 15/6/1818
Ann bpt 17/10/1814, Father in the Customs.
James Fitzgerald bpt 27/6/1816, Father Officer in the Customs.
Also,
3/7/1818 Charlotte daur of Robert & Margaret 3weeks,
7/7/1818 Amelia daur of Robert & Margaret 1 month
19/6/1811 Charles son of Robert Shipman, Gent, 13mths, Fever.
11/6/1811 James son of Robert Shipman, Gent, Fever, 5yrs. (Not in Baptisms)
17/2/1794 Margaret relict of John Shipman, Merchant, Hull.
Thomas Shipman, Gent, 29/8/1794, No age given at death.
best wishes,
Gogogadgetlegs
Lincolnshire,   Andrew/s Jenkinson, 
Yorkshire,   Andrew/s, Watson, Norris, Simpson, Binnington, Willingham, Theakston, Kingdom, Brown, Fewson, Croforth, Boynton/Bointon, Jenkinson, Crawford/Croforth, Hessey, Harper, Mann, Worledge, Flatman.
Kent, Kingdom, Cosham,
Norfolk,   Worlidge, Flatman, Alden, West, Kett, Gathercole. Starkey
Suffolk,   Wallage, Worledge, Starkey
Nth Battleford, Canada, Worledge, Flatman


Census Info Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk