Author Topic: A 1918 marriage in Church Kirk  (Read 3149 times)

Offline colee

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Re: A 1918 marriage in Church Kirk
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 22 November 17 17:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Yes thanks for putting me right on that. The Lanc council website came up with Altcar when I was thinking about ordering the certificate, it gives you the parish name if you don't know it yourself - not sure why it came up with the wrong name. Perhaps it should be Whalley, I found another reference elsewhere on the website:

CHURCH KIRK, St James (Whalley); Diocese of Blackburn.

I might try to order it again if I can find the right page and can't find the info any other way.

Perhaps I am barking up the wrong tree (a bit appropriate here!...), I found Ellen Tattersall on the 1939 Findmypast register with John Butterworth but I don't have the right membership to see the 3rd name in the household. I'm thinking about buying some credits but not sure if I want to commit, I already have Ancestry etc.

sorry for causing the confusion..

I've also looked through all the births of Johns to a mother Catherine in the churches around 1893 when I think he was born, but can't find anything.

thanks for your help and interest so far
Colee



Offline rosie99

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Re: A 1918 marriage in Church Kirk
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 22 November 17 18:00 GMT (UK) »
Marriage Certificates cost £10 through the lancashire website and £9.25 from the GRO
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

Marriage Dec qtr 1918
BUTTERWORTH    John   
Tattersall    Ellen       
Blackburn R.D    8e   596

Your local library may have full access to the 1939 register

Where did you see John & Ellen in 1939
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Offline colee

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Re: A 1918 marriage in Church Kirk
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 22 November 17 18:10 GMT (UK) »
that's a really good point about my local library, I will definitely look into that. I have a the cheap membership of findmypast, this is the info I am able to access on their website:

Butterworth Household
Blackburn C.B., Lancashire, England
FIRST NAME(S)   LAST NAME(S)   BIRTH YEAR
John   Butterworth   1893
Ellen Butterworth and 1 more person are on this record

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: A 1918 marriage in Church Kirk
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 22 November 17 19:12 GMT (UK) »
The information and reference number you quoted in your 1st post was from Lancashire BMD. The register is at Preston.*
The church is on St. James' Rd., Church. It closed last year. There has been a church in Church since middle of 7th century. Earlier ones were dedicated to St Oswald; St. James was successor to St. Oswald's. The place Church is situated beside Oswaldtwistle. The railway station is Church & Oswaldtwistle. They are between Blackburn and Accrington and now merge into Accrington.

Edit. * The way you added Preston after St. James, Church Kirk made it appear as if Preston was the postal address. It's not. Preston was included on the reference you found on Lancashire BMD because the original marriage register is kept at Preston.
Cowban


Offline colee

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Re: A 1918 marriage in Church Kirk
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 22 November 17 19:30 GMT (UK) »
that's useful, thanks, helps to reinforce the geography and make sense of the history of all the place names.

Offline Pennines

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Re: A 1918 marriage in Church Kirk
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 22 November 17 20:19 GMT (UK) »
Unfortunately the surnames of Butterworth and Tattersall are fairly common around this area. Looking at the 1939 Register there is certainly a John Butterworth born in 1893 with a wife Ellen living in Blackburn -- but we don't know for sure if it is your couple.

There is also an Arthur and a Hilary present. HOWEVER - the maiden name of their mother was LAMB - so that entry in 1939 I think can be discounted.

In addition there is a John Butterworth born 1892 on the 1939 Register in Oswaldtwistle (which is adjacent to Church Kirk) - but his wife is not Ellen.

The safest thing you can do is to actually purchase the marriage certificate to check the father's name. This will prove once and for all whether it is your John. Also it should say whether the father was deceased -- so if it IS William Thomas - you will know whether he is alive at that point.

I have looked at Military records - just in case John was in WW1 - but if he was, his record hasn't survived. Also checking births of babies named Butterworth, with mother's maiden name of Tattersall shows an Elsie in 1923 in Oswaldtwistle sub registration district (Lancashire BMD) -- but this may be a different Butterworth/Tattersall couple.

I would obtain the marriage cert definitely - just to confirm one way or the other. You can order from the General Register Office on line (which is the easiest way).
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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: A 1918 marriage in Church Kirk
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 22 November 17 20:38 GMT (UK) »
You mentioned Whalley and the Diocese of Blackburn in post # 9.
Whalley was a large, ancient parish, founded before the Norman Conquest 1066. Church, Oswaldtwistle, Old and New Accrington, Haslingden, Altham and many other settlements were within it. Part of it extended into Yorkshire. Whalley Abbey was an important place. The Abbey was closed by King Henry 8th's Reformation. Whalley is around 7 miles north of Church. (A favourite destination for a summer Sunday ramble for Church & Oswaldtwistle residents who were contemporaries of John Butterworth.)
The Diocese of Blackburn was founded 1926.
Cowban

Offline colee

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Re: A 1918 marriage in Church Kirk
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 22 November 17 20:40 GMT (UK) »
Huge thanks that is incredibly helpful.

In fact I was only guessing that Ellen's husband was my John. I don't know anything about him after 1911 when he is an 18 yr old Taylor shop assistant living at 107 Hall Lane Farnworth with his mother.

So the John listed at Oswaldwistle could be him, although he seemed to move around a lot so I'd be almost surprised if he was that close to where he started.

Yes it looks like I need to purchase the marriage cert to see the name of this John's father.

It is still possible that the John on the 1939 register is 'my' John as I am only guessing Ellen Tattersall may be is his wife, it could be Ellen Lamb instead?..

thanks again - I will now make that purchase.

Offline colee

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Re: A 1918 marriage in Church Kirk
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 22 November 17 20:52 GMT (UK) »
purchase now gone through, fingers crossed, although estimated despatch date isn't until 14 December, I hope it doesn't take that long. Death certs are much quicker than that!