Author Topic: Help translating segment from German article  (Read 819 times)

Offline Nick93

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Help translating segment from German article
« on: Wednesday 22 November 17 15:42 GMT (UK) »
Hello, would anyone please help me to translate a part of this article from a German genealogy magazine? It's regarding the ancestry of the Bidembach family of Lutheran pastors of Wuerrtemberg. I think the gist of it is that Johannes Bidembach's cousin was a goldsmith who left him land in Wuerrtemberg and that's the connecting link to know more about the family's lineage, but I'm not sure if the link of cousinship is confirmed or not. I took relevant snippets here.

https://i.imgur.com/u2AEcnj.png

https://i.imgur.com/kjeT7s6.png

https://i.imgur.com/672jnGB.png

https://i.imgur.com/qRaCLeh.png

Really appreciate any help.

Offline HughC

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Re: Help translating segment from German article
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 23 November 17 15:15 GMT (UK) »
Can't do it all at once, but I'll make a start.
Bagwell of Kilmore & Lisronagh, Co. Tipperary;  Beatty from Enniskillen;  Brown from Preston, Lancs.;  Burke of Ballydugan, Co. Galway;  Casement in the IoM and Co. Antrim;  Davison of Knockboy, Broughshane;  Frobisher;  Guillemard;  Harrison in Co. Antrim and Dublin;  Jones around Burton Pedwardine, Lincs.;  Lindesay of Loughry;  Newcomen of Camlagh, Co. Roscommon;  Shield;  Watson from Kidderminster;  Wilkinson from Leeds

Offline Nick93

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Re: Help translating segment from German article
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 23 November 17 19:25 GMT (UK) »
Thanks very much Hugh, that would be great. :)

Offline HughC

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Re: Help translating segment from German article
« Reply #3 on: Friday 24 November 17 08:09 GMT (UK) »
I'm attaching the first page: does it come across?

The second page is not easy: mediaeval legal terms that are not in a normal dictionary, abbreviations that I think are currency units but can't be sure.
Bagwell of Kilmore & Lisronagh, Co. Tipperary;  Beatty from Enniskillen;  Brown from Preston, Lancs.;  Burke of Ballydugan, Co. Galway;  Casement in the IoM and Co. Antrim;  Davison of Knockboy, Broughshane;  Frobisher;  Guillemard;  Harrison in Co. Antrim and Dublin;  Jones around Burton Pedwardine, Lincs.;  Lindesay of Loughry;  Newcomen of Camlagh, Co. Roscommon;  Shield;  Watson from Kidderminster;  Wilkinson from Leeds


Offline Nick93

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Re: Help translating segment from German article
« Reply #4 on: Friday 24 November 17 20:41 GMT (UK) »
Oh yes thank you, that works fine. :)

Basically from what I was able to understand, this goldsmith, Hans Wirtemberger dies and his cousins and nephews inherit his property.

Somehow the author makes the connection that Johannes Bidembach must have been one of the cousins, but I can't see if he says they're outright sure Bidembach was his cousin, like he was listed in some document, or if it's just inferred.

Offline HughC

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Re: Help translating segment from German article
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 25 November 17 10:37 GMT (UK) »
I struggled with the last two pages (attached).  Perhaps someone else can improve on my attempt, or even fill in the second page which rather defeated me.  It's difficult enough to find equivalents for 15th-century terms that are already in English!  So some of it is guesswork.
Bagwell of Kilmore & Lisronagh, Co. Tipperary;  Beatty from Enniskillen;  Brown from Preston, Lancs.;  Burke of Ballydugan, Co. Galway;  Casement in the IoM and Co. Antrim;  Davison of Knockboy, Broughshane;  Frobisher;  Guillemard;  Harrison in Co. Antrim and Dublin;  Jones around Burton Pedwardine, Lincs.;  Lindesay of Loughry;  Newcomen of Camlagh, Co. Roscommon;  Shield;  Watson from Kidderminster;  Wilkinson from Leeds

Offline Nick93

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Re: Help translating segment from German article
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 26 November 17 00:37 GMT (UK) »
Oh, this is great, thanks for all the work. :)

I guess I'm still just confused on how the author figured out the Bidembach/Wirtemberger connection just based on Johannes Bidembach inheriting some property from a cousin in Wurttemburg, as he doesn't say if his cousin's will explicitly named him or not. Maybe it's just that academic German language isn't conveying what he means quite the same way as English.

Offline HughC

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Re: Help translating segment from German article
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 26 November 17 15:11 GMT (UK) »
I too felt that the whole thing could have been better expressed.
The document references in the notes may be explained elsewhere, but mean nothing to me.

By the way, Stift could be a seminary or perhaps some other kind of religious institution.
I assumed monastery.

Zinsen means interest (on a loan).  Doesn't quite fit, and anyway it's in the singular here. 
I suspect they were dealing in land leases, which pay a dividend in the form of rents.

I also assumed that Pfd and ß are pound and shilling, with the final h indicating something like Hamburg or Hannover currency.  But we have a grand mixture of florins and guilders (which may be the same, as they were in Holland until fairly recently) and Heller (a very small coin) and more.

The fact that nobody else seems to have attempted a translation makes me think it's perhaps not just my inadequate command of German!
Bagwell of Kilmore & Lisronagh, Co. Tipperary;  Beatty from Enniskillen;  Brown from Preston, Lancs.;  Burke of Ballydugan, Co. Galway;  Casement in the IoM and Co. Antrim;  Davison of Knockboy, Broughshane;  Frobisher;  Guillemard;  Harrison in Co. Antrim and Dublin;  Jones around Burton Pedwardine, Lincs.;  Lindesay of Loughry;  Newcomen of Camlagh, Co. Roscommon;  Shield;  Watson from Kidderminster;  Wilkinson from Leeds