Magill, also Orr, McCann, Mayne. Carrickfergus. C. of I. and Presbyterian

[Biyn Christian]

Hello All,

I'm new to RootsChat.

My g.grandfather Robert Magill was a sailor from Carrickfergus. Born 1824 to 26?  His father was John who lived in Davys Street, in 1862. John could have been the husband of Martha Orr.

Robert's first wife could have been Sarah McCann. Married, St. Anne's, Belfast, 1855.  His second wife was definitely Margaret Mayne. Married, Joymount, Carrickfergus, 1862.

[aghadowey]

Hello All,

I'm new to RootsChat.

My g.grandfather Robert Magill was a sailor from Carrickfergus. Born 1824 to 26?  His father was John who lived in Davys Street, in 1862. John could have been the husband of Martha Orr.

Robert's first wife could have been Sarah McCann. Married, St. Anne's, Belfast, 1855.  His second wife was definitely Margaret Mayne. Married, Joymount, Carrickfergus, 1862.

Welcome to Rootschat 

It's not clear why you think "John could have been the husband of Martha Orr" and "Robert's first wife could have been Sarah McCann. Married, St. Anne's, Belfast, 1855." Presumably Robert's marriage to Margaret Mayne lists him as a widower? If, and that's if, Sarah was his first wife she would have died between 1855-1862 which is before civil registration so there will be no death certificate for Sarah.

"His father was John who lived in Davys Street, in 1862."
If this is based on Robert's 1862 marriage certificate then that is Robert's residence, which may or may not be where his father lived. Indeed, Irish certificates don't always indicate if the father is dead or alive so father John could have died before 1862.

[Biyn Christian]

Hi Aghadowey,

Thank you for your reply.

Thanks for correcting me:  The section 'Residence at the Time of Marriage' is for the bride and groom, not their fathers!  Robert, Widower, Mariner, lived in Davys Street and Margaret lived in the Irish Quarter.

As you say, both fathers may have been deceased before 1862. 

I included Martha Orr because a Robert Magill was baptized in St Nicholas, Carrickfergus, in 1824.
His parents were John Magill and Martha nee Orr.

There was a John Magill at Boneybefore, North East Division, Carrickfergus, but his son Robert was a batchelor, with no reference to him being a sailor.

I have a document for a Sarah Magill who died on 30 Jan. 1859, aged 32.  Her Parish/District was Carrickfergus CI, but her address was 'Belfast'  Perhaps Robert was at sea and she was with relatives in Belfast at the time of death.  More supposition of course.

I appreciate any advice or leads.

Regards,
Biyn              Attachments not accepted.  Copies below -

Date of Marriage: 05-Jan-1862
 
Parish / District: CARRICKFERGUS. Joymount Presbyterian

Robert Magill, Davys Street, MARINER, Widower, Presbyterian, Full Age

Margaret Mayne, Irish Quarter, Spinster, Presbyterian, Full Age

Husband's Father: John Magill, Labourer

Wife's Father: David Mayne, Labourer

Witness 1: William Mulholland

Witness 2: Margaret Hunter


Date of Marriage: 20 February, 1855

St. Anne's Church of Ireland, Belfast.

Robert Magill, 29, Single, Sailor, Church of Ireland

Sarah McCann, 28, Single, Seamstress, Church of Ireland

Groom's Father: John Magill, Car Man

Bride's Father: John McCann, Carter

Witnesses: Thomas Magill, James Magill

[aghadowey]

I suspect you might have gotten the marriage records from a pay site who have the strange habit of attributing religion of church to both bride and groom? Irish marriage certificates do not list their religion.

Have you checked church records to see if you can find any children baptised? Robert born 1864, James born 1866, Martha born 1868, Amelia Ellen Stewart born 1870, Robert (1874 Belfast)- could be others

Added- going off to check for a few clues...

[Biyn Christian]

Hi Aghadowey,

I have confirmed the 1862 marriage details in 1998 by getting in touch with the Treasurer (Jim Adamson) at Joymount.  My ancestors have been Presbyterian since that time.

William Mulholland married Mary Mayne, both of Davys Street, at Joymount in 1854.  Mary was Margaret's younger sister but she was under age when she married William. I thought the Mulhollands would have been Catholic or Church of Ireland - not Presbyterian

You have certainly got my attention, regarding ancestral details on pay sites -  it is a lucrative business!   

Robert (2) was the last sibling.  He was my grandfather.  He married Lizzie Johnston in Newington Presbyterian, in 1898.

I have enough ancestral details from Margaret's birth, 25 Nov. 1862, to the present.  I'm concentrating on confirming Robert Magill the sailor's first marriage. From there I want to establish the birth date and place of his father John.  And, was John a Presbyterian, C of I., or Catholic. 

You must have been up late when you answered my last email.  Thank you for your time knowledge.

Regards,
Biyn

[aghadowey]

Not quite what you are looking for but following this connection might lead to some of the details you are looking for.

Robert Magill & Margaret Mayne had a daughter Amelia Ellen Stewart Magill born 1870.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03327/2219566.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10739/5915625.pdf https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1899/10377/5778232.pdf

Now, a James Magill married 1869 to Amelia Stuart Girvan. Looks like his father might have been a William Magill (haven't viewed the marriage certificate) but seems logical that Robert's daughter (born 1870) was named after James' wife (married 1869).

[Biyn Christian]

Hi aghadowey,

My g.grandfather, Robert the Sailor would have been 43 to 45 in 1869.  The James Magill who married in 1869 might have been a nephew, or a brother if he married late.  James, Thomas, John and Margaret are possible names for Robert's siblings. You maybe right about Amelia being named after James' wife Amelia.

Mary Ann Stewart is the Informant at the birth of Martha and Amelia.  I'm wondering if she was a sister or a daughter of Ellen Stewart, and were they close relatives of the Magills.

Thanks for your searches. 

Are you in Aghadowey?

Regards,
Bill

[aghadowey]

Here's a bit about James Magill who married Amelia Ellen Stuart-

James Magill m.(1869 Larne district) Amelia Stuart Girvan (c1847-25 June 1886 Market Pl., Carrickfergus) 
1870- carpenter, 20 Bentinck St., 1879- bird fancier, 100 Nelson St.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1886/06253/4790715.pdf
1. H. Alexander Magill (15 Feb.1870 Belfast) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03363/2233333.pdf
2. John Magill (12 June 1874 Belfast)
3. Samuel Magill (16 July 1879 Belfast)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02910/2066185.pdf
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Carrickfergus/High_Street/992697


... and yes, I'm in Aghadowey 

[Biyn Christian]

Hi Aghadowie, 

I don’t think those Magills you gave me match with mine.  They
and the Girvans seem to be from the Ballynure District, before they 
were in Carrickfergus. Their Amelia has her second name spelt Stuart. 
But I consider all possibilities.

A Martha Orr (married name or maiden name?)
married Thomas Orr in St, Columb's Churh, Londonderry,
in 1819.  What do you call the city – Londonderry or Derry?
In my opinion the County name should be Derry -
(Modern Irish – Doire) meaning ‘oak grove’ and I was born
with a Protestant background in Larne.

Apart from the baptism of Robert Magill in St Nicholas,
Carrickfergus, 1824, and his parents named as John Magill
and Martha Orr, I could only find the aforementioned Martha.

Robert the Sailor’s daughter Martha, born 20 Jan.1868 was
the second daughter.  I think she would have been given her
grandmother Magill’s name. The first daughter, Margaret
being named after her mother?  What do you thnk?

Let me know if I am sending too much material. I'm sure your
time is devoted to a lot of people.

Regards,
Bill