Author Topic: German translation please  (Read 292 times)

Offline Greggles

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German translation please
« on: Friday 24 November 17 21:12 GMT (UK) »
Can anyone tell me what this word means please - Rößleinswith
It describes the occupation of a Johann Jakob Haag on a birth document in 1818.  I believe this ß means s repeated and RoBlein could be the name of a pub/inn/restaurant in Niederstetten, Wurttemberg.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  Many thanks Greggles.


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Offline carom

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Re: German translation please
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 25 November 17 10:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi,
I do remember when travelling in southern Germany, a couple of inns with the name rote rößlein and gueldener rößlein- the red horse and golden horse.
It's a long time since I did German A level, but I cannot think of many words ending "-with". Are you certain of the spelling? An innkeeper is usually a Gastwirt, could it be this?

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Offline Greggles

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Re: German translation please
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 25 November 17 10:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi Carom,  Thank you for that information.  No the word is definitely as given previously.  It is shown twice on the parish register.  So I can assume that the inn or pub was called "The Red Horse Inn" or "The Golden Horse Inn" or something similar.  The word "gastwirt" does not appear anywhere on the document.  Thanks again.


Offline davecapps

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Re: German translation please
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 25 November 17 12:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi
i totally agree with carom. It is to 99% Rößleinwirt. Earlier spelling with, th Rößleinwirth.

Johann Jakob Haag, Rösleinwirth and Stadtbauer (Town famer)

Here 2 excerpts from the county archive B Würtemberg

Ni 5 Bü 227
Criminalia, Urfehden und Sonstige Centagelegenheiten, vorwiegend in der Herrschaft Haltenbergstetten. 
Enthält u.a.: 1. Verhör der wegen Diebstahl verhafteten Margarete Scholl, 1631;
2. Auslieferung der Maria Katharina Rost zu Haltenbergstetten an das Amt Lauda, 1690;
3. Diebstahl von 30 Schafen aus der herrschaftlichen Schäferei Rehhof, 1696;
4. Verhör hatzfeldtischer Untertanen in Angelegenheiten eines zu Weikersheim inhaftierten Diebs, 1699;
5. Untersuchung der Diebstähle des Paul Ott zu Haltenbergstetten, 1699;
6. Differenzen zwischen der Kanzlei Haltenbergstetten und Rothenburg o.d.T. wegen der Zurückgabe eines gestohlenen Ochsen durch den Rößleinwirt zu Haltenbergstetten, 1703. 

A matter of differences between the chancellery Haltenbergstetten and Rothenburg ob der Tauber over the return of a stolen Ox from the  Rößleinwirt in Haltenbergstetten


Ni 5 Bü 233
Criminalia, Urfehden und Sonstige Centagelegenheiten, vorwiegend in der Herrschaft Haltenbergstetten. 
Enthält u.a.: 1. Centschöffeneid, 1682;
2. Steckbriefe über den flüchtigen Kutscher Hans Metzger, 1682;
3. Bestrafung der Magdalena Lähmer zu Vorbachzimmern und des Peter Pflüger wegen Blutschande, 1716;
4. Untersuchung gegen en Rößleinwirt Johann Michael Schumm zu Niederstetten wegen Beherbergung von Dieben, (1715) 1716-1717;
5. Untersuchung gegen den Knecht Johann Michael Unfug zu Rinderfeld wegen Diebstahl, 1718;
6. Tödlicher Sturz des Michael Herbst zu Vorbachzimmern, 1721;
7. Beraubung des Georg Jakob Schimpf zu Riedbach, 1721;
8. Verhaftung eines fremden Juden wegen Diebstahl zu Niederstetten, 1721. 

Investigation against the  Rößleinwirt Johann Michael Schumm from Niederbergstetten regarding harboring thieves.

Dave

Offline Greggles

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Re: German translation please
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 25 November 17 13:13 GMT (UK) »
Dave, Thanks for your explanations.  My German is almost non-existent so it is very difficult to translate some of these early genealogy documents.  You help is very much appreciated.

Offline wee Hugh

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Re: German translation please
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 25 November 17 16:29 GMT (UK) »
I can't help thinking of a poem by Goethe that starts
Sah ein Knab' ein Röslein stehn, Röslein auf der Heiden.

The German equivalent of Molesworth (remember him?) rendered the Röslein as Rößlein,
turning a little rose into a little horse on the heath.  You don't think we could have confusion here?
Which is more likely as the name of an inn?

Wirth as old-fashioned spelling of Wirt = landlord is certain.
Bagwell of Kilmore & Lisronagh, Co. Tipperary;  Beatty from Enniskillen;  Brown from Preston, Lancs.;  Burke of Ballydugan, Co. Galway;  Casement in the IoM and Co. Antrim;  Davison of Knockboy, Broughshane;  Frobisher;  Guillemard;  Harrison in Co. Antrim and Dublin;  Jones around Burton Pedwardine, Lincs.;  Lindesay of Loughry;  Newcomen of Camlagh, Co. Roscommon;  Shield;  Watson from Kidderminster;  Wilkinson from Leeds

Offline Greggles

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Re: German translation please
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 25 November 17 20:39 GMT (UK) »
Wee Hugh, Thanks for your interesting suggestion.  Another interpretation given was "landlord of an inn" so perhaps "landlord of little horse inn" in English.  Given that the document in question is dated 1818, no doubt there was a different manner of speaking then. 

Offline carom

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Re: German translation please
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 25 November 17 21:09 GMT (UK) »
I'll confess to being a little confused here. Do we think Johann was an innkeeper or a farmer who also kept horses?


(As an aside I am a Molesworth fan, my father, a boarder at a strange prep school during WW2, read me the stories when I was a child.)

Offline Greggles

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Re: German translation please
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 25 November 17 21:21 GMT (UK) »
Carom,  I am not sure what others think but from what information I have, I believe Jacob Haag was the landlord of an inn in Niederstetten prior to 1818.  I am happy to be corrected though.  Thanks.