Author Topic: Can anyone find Annabel Nicholson?  (Read 3239 times)

Offline Shiny1

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Re: Can anyone find Annabel Nicholson?
« Reply #9 on: Monday 27 November 17 13:56 GMT (UK) »
It's not an answer to your question, but I see another possible child for the Ramshaw marriage:

Death reg, Sep qtr 1921 South Shields: Mary Robinson Ramshaw, aged 2.

Thanks a lot, I'll get her added in as well.

Michael
Dale (Newcastle Upon Tyne), Beck, English, Hall, Harrison, Stephenson (all from the North Shields, South Shields area), Woodger (from the Newcastle and Liss areas)

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Can anyone find Annabel Nicholson?
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 13:39 GMT (UK) »
Hi Michael,

I have been able to look up the record for you and save you another trip.  However, it looks like she is unlikely to be Annabel.  Or what do you think?:

St Mary's, South Shields
10 August 1916
Entry no: 45
Robert Ramshaw and Isabella English
Both aged 21
Bachelor and Spinster
He was an 'Electrician'
His residence: Tyne Dock
Her residence: 18 Railway Street
Fathers: Henry Ramshaw (deceased) - Chief Engineer and John English - Skipper(deceased)
Both signed their names
Witnesses: George William Baker and Sarah A Abbott
Marriage was by licence

Best Wishes :)
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Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: Can anyone find Annabel Nicholson?
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 14:41 GMT (UK) »
Robert Ramshaw's service record also says he married Isabella English, a spinster.
Do you have anything that confirms she was the widow of Charles?

EDIT Yes, I assume you got that from the register of soldier's effects which has a note dated 1919 saying Annabel Ramshaw.

Curiouser and curiouser  :-)

Boo

Offline Shiny1

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Re: Can anyone find Annabel Nicholson?
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 15:23 GMT (UK) »
This is turning into a real puzzle, here's what I know.

Charles English married Annabel Nicholson on the 7th Jan 1910. Their names are confirmed on the GRO index (ref 10a 1163 for both).

The 1911 census records them both as 21 years old, married for 1 year and living in Middle Street, North Shields with a 1 year old child, James. Charles's occupation is a dock yard painter's labourer.

On the 23rd of April 1915 Charles is killed in a battle just outside Ypres.

Free BMD shows a second child being born in South Shields in Sep 1915 to English and Nicholson - conceived during Christmas leave?

Robert Ramshaw's service record shows he married Isabella English, a spinster, on the 4th of October 1916 at St. Marys, South Shields and gives his address as Raglan Street, South Shields. He list's one child also called Robert born in 1917. He was a dockyard fireman.

River Tyne Lass's information shows them both as being 21 when they were married on 10 Aug 1916 at St. Marys in South Shields.

I have found a family tree on line that shows Robert's father was called Henry and he died in 1915. Annabel's father's name is unknown because I can't find any trace of her before she married Charles. Charles's father was also called Charles so she hasn't just used his name.

The register of soldiers effects shows Charles widow receiving a payment on the 20th Aug 1919 for herself and children, she is now called Annabel Ramshaw.

The 1939 register has Robert Ramshaw, born 1 Jan 1895 and Isabella Ramshaw, born 25 Dec 1894 living in Wallsend.

Free BMD shows two children born in South Shields to a Ramshaw and Nicholson in March 1917 and 1919. There is nothing for Ramshaw and English.

I don't have any document from the time to confirm she is definitely the same person but I think after Charles has died she has managed to find a husband to help bring up her young family, I suspect Robert worked in the same dock as Charles .

For some reason she has lied about her age on the second marriage and made herself 5 years younger. Her two children, aged 6 and 1 aren't mentioned on his military record.

The only thing that does puzzle me is why did she stay with a deserter after what happened to Charles, unless it was because of what happened to Charles and she has told him to desert as she didn't want to lose a second husband.

Any thoughts?

Michael
Dale (Newcastle Upon Tyne), Beck, English, Hall, Harrison, Stephenson (all from the North Shields, South Shields area), Woodger (from the Newcastle and Liss areas)


Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Can anyone find Annabel Nicholson?
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 18:39 GMT (UK) »
I have been able to recheck the reel today and can confirm that no one married on the 4th October 1916 at this Church.  So on his service record either Robert got muddled up or lied about his marriage date.
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Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Can anyone find Annabel Nicholson?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 19:52 GMT (UK) »

Robert Ramshaw's service record shows he married Isabella English, a spinster, on the 4th of October 1916 at St. Marys, South Shields and gives his address as Raglan Street, South Shields.
He list's one child also called Robert born in 1917. He was a dockyard fireman.

River Tyne Lass's information shows them both as being 21 when they were married on 10 Aug 1916 at St. Marys in South Shields.

Robert's father was called Henry and he died in 1915.

The 1939 register has
Robert Ramshaw, born 1 Jan 1895 and Isabella Ramshaw, born 25 Dec 1894 living in Wallsend.

Sorry not able to help with Annabel Nicholson   ???

on Robert's Army records I see that next of kin
Alice / mother has been crossed out and Isabella/ wife added
not sure if you have these records.....

6 East Perey Street
Alice Ramshaw m 25
Robert Ramshaw son 6
Henry T W Ramshaw son 4
Mary Lawrence wid 56 mother in law
1901c RG13; Piece: 4803; Folio: 19; Page: 30

RAMSHAW, HENRY  THOMAS WAUGH mmn   LAWRENCE
 1896  S Quarter in SOUTH SHIELDS  Volume 10A  Page 813

RAMSHAW, CARL  ROBERT CHRISTIANSON mmn   LAWRENCE 
1895  M Quarter in SOUTH SHIELDS  Volume 10A  Page 795

 death 1951 Robert
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/167805641

Marriage
Dec 1894 S Shields
Henry Thomas W Ramshaw
Alice Lawrence

1891 RG12; Piece: 4155; Folio: 107; Page: 31
Alice Lawrence 16 servant


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Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Can anyone find Annabel Nicholson?
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 20:11 GMT (UK) »


Charles English married Annabel Nicholson on the 7th Jan 1910. Their names are confirmed on the GRO index (ref 10a 1163 for both).

The 1911 census records them both as 21 years old, married for 1 year and living in Middle Street, North Shields with a 1 year old child, James. Charles's occupation is a dock yard painter's labourer.

On the 23rd of April 1915 Charles is killed in a battle just outside Ypres.

Free BMD shows a second child being born in South Shields in Sep 1915 to English and Nicholson - conceived during Christmas leave?


Is this James' birth entry?

ENGLISH, JAMES  WILLIAM ROBINSON mmn NICHOLSON 
 1910  M Quarter in SOUTH SHIELDS  Volume 10A  Page 843

A public tree on Anc*y for JWRE says
born 16/01/1910 • South Shields, County Durham
death  DEC 1984 • Blackpool and Fylde, Lancashire
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8669606
parents
Charles English born 24 JULY 1891 • North shields
died 23 APRIL 1915 • Flanders France

Hanna Isabella 1893 Scotland –1968
died 20 MARCH 1968 • Lancashire
you would need to verify

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Offline Shiny1

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Re: Can anyone find Annabel Nicholson?
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 29 November 17 08:22 GMT (UK) »
Morning Ladyhawk, thanks very much for the info I think that is them.

Being a sucker for military records I'll have to get those and see what he was up to and if it helps any.

(Great screen name as well, that used to be a favourite film of mine).

Michael
Dale (Newcastle Upon Tyne), Beck, English, Hall, Harrison, Stephenson (all from the North Shields, South Shields area), Woodger (from the Newcastle and Liss areas)

Offline Shiny1

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Re: Can anyone find Annabel Nicholson?
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 29 November 17 08:38 GMT (UK) »
Here's another possible explanation to throw into the mix.

Annabel's first husband Charles English had a younger sister called Isabella who was born around 1895/6.

Is it possible that she is the person who married Robert Ramshaw? Her age would have been correct and she would have been a spinster rather than a widow.

The reason I have ruled her out is because:

1. The register of soldiers effects naming Charles widow as Annabel Ramshaw.
2. The second marriage referred to by River Tyne Lass names her father as John, it would have been Charles.

I suppose it's another option to consider.

Michael
Dale (Newcastle Upon Tyne), Beck, English, Hall, Harrison, Stephenson (all from the North Shields, South Shields area), Woodger (from the Newcastle and Liss areas)