John and Thomas Smith from Arklow to NZ.

[powerwicklow]

What do i say. Thanks is hardly enough for what has been found. I have only glanced over what has been found but will look at in more detail now. The information is there , just knowing where to find it. Also this bit of research is showing me where modern technology is helping to fill the gap where records might not exist. It was not my own DNA but my mothers which was tested recently that came in as a close match to descendant to John Smith. Test was done with Ancestry. I think the marriage of Thomas Webster Smith to Eliza York is Thomas from my family as descendant of John Smith was aware of same marriage. The Australian marriage of John Smith to Elizabeth Kinnison was excellent as it gave where both bride and groom came from and both parents names with mothers maiden name. What more could you ask for. Will be back when i have read over all.

John

[powerwicklow]

Marriage Certs

[powerwicklow]

We have John Smith born circa 1836 Scratenagh Arklow. Death 28th March 1918. Elizabeth Kinnison born circa 1832, Scotland. Death 16 may 1888, Tuapeka West. Both of them are buried with their daughter Mary Jane in the Presbyterian section of Lawrence Central , Otago , cemetery.

His obituary has John in NZ 1861 but himself and Elizabeth were married 17 Feb 1862 , Melbourne , Australia.

From the Will there would seem to have been 7 children. Three sons and four daughters. George Smith. John Kinnison Smith and a William Smith. Not quite making out from will where William was. A school teacher??.

Four daughters. Margaret,Mary Jane , Elizabeth and Susan. From the records we have seen so far Elizabeth hadn't married. Susan married Lionel Ellison. Descendant i have come across of Susan and Lionel may come on board here and  bring family forward another stage. Margaret Married an Alexander Manson and Mary Jane married James Andrew McNeilly.

Mary Jane died young. Buried with her parents her death is recorded as 19 Feb 1906 aged 35. It would seem that James married again a lady by the name of Matilda. James 1859-1941.

Will have to go back and read over will again but if correct 4 children for Mary Jane and James McNeilly.

More work to be done but a good start. Many thanks to all for records found to date.

John

[powerwicklow]

According to BD & M,s for NZ the four children born to an James Andrew McNeiily , mother Mary Jane are as follows.

Alexander Rae McNeilly  Born 1893
Elizabeth Kinnison McNeilly  Born 1896
John Smith McNeilly  Born 1897
James Andrew McNeilly  Born 1906

Family search is coming up with more information. Marriage James Andrew McNeilly and Mary Jane Smith, 17 Jun 1891, Taupeka West, Otago, NZ.

John Smith McNeilly born 1897. Marriage 1921 NZ to an Alberta Jane Muir.

Elizabeth Kinnison McNeilly. Birth 20 Mar 1896 NZ.   Death 11 July 1976 NZ. Marriage 4 Sept 1929 NZ, to a William Hercules Stanley Willocks.

James Andrew McNeilly . Born 9 Feb 1906 NZ.  Death 17 Aug 1974 NZ.  Marriage 23 Oct 1929 NZ to a Dorothy Ellen Edwards.

John

[shanreagh]

Had you noticed that one of the witnesses to the John Smith /Elizabeth Kinnison marriage was Frank Webster who was shown as a miner from Blue Spur.  Noting that John Smith's mother was the former Margaret Webster I am wondering if there is a connection.  In my searches I have found that while many families did strike out into the wide blue yonder many others went where others from their villages or their families had gone.  Looking at witnesses and seeing how they fit is can be very informative (some times), other times not so. 

[Lucy2]

Haven't managed to get back to this thread yet to add further, but yes, I'd also spotted the "Frank Webster" witness and followed up on him. 

I'll find the notes shortly, but from memory the Frank (Francis) I found, married the widow of what I assumed was a fellow mining ?  colleague.   There was no issue of that union and it was therefore a difficult task to prove whether the man was the same as the fellow who'd appeared as a witness.

And I agree shanreagh that taking the time to check out marriage witnesses can be a very worthwhile exercise (at times).   
   
      ~  Lu

[powerwicklow]

Of the 15 Smith children only the two that we are researching emigrated to NZ. While most of the rest stayed local William and Henry Smith emigrated to Canada .

I had help here before researching two other people.
Elizabeth Webster Wicklow to NZ
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=594790.0

Henry Webster Roberts, Wicklow Ireland to NZ
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=554689.0

John Smith and Thomas Webster Smith are first cousins to Elizabeth Webster and Henry Webster Roberts.

The question of who Frank Webster might be. There is the possibility he is also a first cousin. While we have always had it verbally that the family of Websters i come down from and another local Webster family are one in the same we have not found connection on paper. DNA is again proving very helpful here in that my mother and a member of other family are proving close connections.

Where does this bring Frank in. Three members of other Webster Family also emigrated to NZ. A John , a Francis and a George Webster.They were all sons of a Robert Webster and Sarah Smyth of Ballyknockan , Glenealy, Co Wicklow.

John Webster 1855-1942 married an Ann Robertson 10 June 1885 at Waitahuna West. They went on to have 11 children

George Webster born 1849 as far as we know didn't marry in NZ but was killed in a mining accident 25 Nov 1886 at Otago. Cemetery records say he had been in the country 8 years.

Francis Webster born 17 June 1853, Ballyknockan. I have a Marriage for Francis to a Jane Higgins 27 Sept 1887 at Lawrence. One child know of here. A daughter Minnie. Francis passed away 11 Aug 1942 at Dunedin. No idea at the moment when Francis arrived in NZ but he may be the witness at marriage.

John

[powerwicklow]

I have made initial contact with owner of online tree at Ancestry as to family of Thomas  Webster Smith and it would seem from correspondence between families the same Thomas is linked back to same family at Scratenagh, Arklow, Co Wicklow.

[Overall]

I have just encouraged my brother in law here in NZ to do the Ancestry DNA test.  He is called Alan [surname redacted to maintain personal privacy - Moderator] and his great grandparents  were John Smith and Elizabeth Kinnison who married in Melbourne and arrived in NZ (South Island) for the gold rush.  We are grateful for sight of their marriage certificate online.  Alan has an extensive Smith family out here.  Once he has his DNA results in front of him it would be good to correspond and find out definitely where in Ireland this particular part of his family originate from.  Cheers