Author Topic: MM research - is there anything else I can do?  (Read 821 times)

Offline SmallTownGirl

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MM research - is there anything else I can do?
« on: Tuesday 28 November 17 11:54 GMT (UK) »
A g.uncle of mine was posthumously awarded the MM in 1918.

I already have his Attestation papers, medal card, medal roll, soldier's effects listing and everything else that Ancestry and FindMyPast can offer, plus his CWGC entry and listings on various Warwickshire war memorials, but I've never been able to find anything resembling a citation regarding his MM.

I have looked at his Regiment's (The Northamptonshire Regiment) War Diaries from a few days before he was KIA to a few days after and, whilst not necessarily expecting a "mere" Cpl to be mentioned by name, I can't see anything where anyone else is mentioned either.  A month or so after his death, the War Diary does contain a page listing various medal recipients and his name there. 

I'm wondering:

-whether there's any mileage in trying to research the names of other NCOs who are on that same page to see if anyone else was KIA on the same day and/or has a findable MM citation? 
- whether anyone can suggest an alternative line of research?

Or am I living in false hope of ever finding out why my g.uncle won his MM?

He was Cpl 32847, Vincent James Allton, 1st Bn. Northamptonshire Regiment, who was KIA on 29 Oct 1918 if anyone would like to help  ;)

Thanks
STG
Always looking for GOODWINS in Berkshire :)

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Offline jess5athome

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Re: MM research - is there anything else I can do?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 12:25 GMT (UK) »
Hi, I had / have the same problem, MM citations were not recorded in the press etc, tho' the names of the recipients were published in the London Gazette, I would try the papers local to his area if you have not already done so, there may be something in those, it was always a bit of a moral booster for he folks back home, (Local boy does well, and that sort of thing)

Hope that helps  :)

Frank.

Added, there are some very good people on here who have access to War diary's and trench maps etc, hopefully someone may be able to tie it all down to a particular action.
Ramsey Ridsdale Ridgway Kempen Knight Harrison Denby Sisson Graney Spilsbury Wain Hebden Abbott Skinn ........ Yorkshire (Doncaster Goole Snaith Thorne area)Lincolnshire Nottinghamshire The Netherlands

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Offline SmallTownGirl

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Re: MM research - is there anything else I can do?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 12:37 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Frank, but I've got the London Gazette entry for him. Sorry I forgot to mention that in my list of "already got/tried that's"   :-[

Have also scoured local newspapers, but absolutely no luck.  Maybe because by the time the news of his MM was released, he was already dead?

STG

Always looking for GOODWINS in Berkshire :)

Offline cati

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Re: MM research - is there anything else I can do?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 12:42 GMT (UK) »
Bagot, Bate, Dominy,  Cox, Frost, Griffiths, Eccleston(e), Godrich, Griffiths, Hartland/Hartlin, Westwood, Spicer, Peake, Pass, Perry, Nuttle, Warrender

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Offline MaxD

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Re: MM research - is there anything else I can do?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 14:58 GMT (UK) »
While clearly you will want to try everything, the answer really is that you have everything there is to find.

The Adjutant and Quartermaster General's element of the divisional headquarters  was responsible for collating recommendations for awards, passing them on to Corps HQ and subsequently publishing the lists.  In October 1918, lists of varying length and varying awards for men across the units of the division were published on 13 different days.  In November, up to the 26th when the list with your man on it was published, 10 lists had been published in different days.  In every case, these were lists only, regiment/name/award.  Your man's award was one of about 150 Military Medals, 19 of them for the Northamptonshires, published on the one day 26th Nov.  The Corps authority for the publication was dated 5 November so the recommendation for the awards in that list would have been submitted early in October (guesswork!).

My guess would be that the fighting in the 18/19th September period may well have been the time that gave rise to your man's award.  There are congratulatory messages in the 2 Brigade diary from the Army, Corps and Divisional commanders praising the work of the units of the 1st Division in an action that drove the line some 3000 yards forward.  Just the sort of thing that would result in the higher formation inviting submissions for medals.

Disappointing I know not to be sure but par for the course unfortunately.

MaxD

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Offline MaxD

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Re: MM research - is there anything else I can do?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 16:15 GMT (UK) »
I should have added that the 18/19 Sep action is very poorly covered in the battalion diary, the brigade diary is better.

MaxD
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Offline SmallTownGirl

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Re: MM research - is there anything else I can do?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 17:28 GMT (UK) »
Thanks MaxD and Cati

Most of the time I'm resigned to the fact that I'll not find out, but whenever I get to thinking about it all again, I just wonder if any new sources have become available that might just reveal all. 

Can you point me towards the brigade diary please - assuming it's on-line?

Thanks
STG
Always looking for GOODWINS in Berkshire :)

Offline jim1

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Re: MM research - is there anything else I can do?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 18:15 GMT (UK) »
I'll content myself by doing the easy bit.
2/Bde. war diary from Oct. 1st. 1918.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l3q/
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
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Offline SmallTownGirl

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Re: MM research - is there anything else I can do?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 18:34 GMT (UK) »
I'll content myself by doing the easy bit.
2/Bde. war diary from Oct. 1st. 1918.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01l3q/

Am confused  :-[ !

My chap was in the 1st Bn.
MaxD says 1st Bn diaries not very illuminating re 18/19 Sept, so try the Brigade diaries.
You send me a link to the Brigade diaries starting 1 Oct.

This military stuff makes my head hurt  ???
Always looking for GOODWINS in Berkshire :)