Author Topic: Did my husband's 3rd great grandmother marry his 3rd great grandfather?  (Read 392 times)

Offline Deirdre784

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,679
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Did my husband's 3rd great grandmother marry his 3rd great grandfather?
« on: Tuesday 28 November 17 21:05 GMT (UK) »
** I have asked for this topic to be locked so please don't spend time searching **

Posted here as the story covers several places in England and Wales...

Joseph Brooks (born Isle of Man, no birth record, baptised on 7 Oct 1877) married Louisa Barnes (born 27 Dec 1876, at Tynewydd, Glamorgan) at Pontypridd (Glamorgan) register office on 26 Dec 1896, father Samuel, navvy ganger. Joseph and Louisa were both living at 90 Middle Street, Trallwn Gardens, Pontypridd.

Joseph's father Samuel was born in Banbury (1881 - Ludgershall, Wiltshire: RG11/2062/40 p 13) or Aston (1891 - 1 Richard Street, Holton, Barry, Glamorgan: RG12/4408/5 p 1) in Oxfordshire around 1840. Living on the Isle of Man in 1861 [ RG10/ 5777/67 p 3; ]. The 1881 census entry is very confusing and lists Samuel's wife as Carbury Brooks, Carbury being her maiden name. 

The previous year, Louisa's mother Sarah Ann Heath (nee Dewson) had married William Brooks. Sarah Ann is with a 'daughter' (I don't know who this is at the moment) but not William on the census in 1901 [ RG13/4998/41 p 4], though are at 56 Coedpenmaen Rd, Pontypridd, in 1911, William, aged 68, born around 1843 in London [RG14/32221; Schedule Number: 40]. At this point, I had assumed that Samuel and William were 2 different men, and had not found Samuel (contractor/builder) and wife Elizabeth after 1891 when they were in Barry (south Wales) (1891 - 1 Richard Street, Holton, Barry, Glamorgan: RG12/4408/5 p 1) .

Sarah Ann Dewson / Duson had a colourful (and sad) history.... see a previous topic http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=760550.msg6220600#msg6220600

I've been following Sarah Ann's journey, buying the certificates of the children, and last week I decided to buy the certificate from her marriage to William Brooks (not his 3* great grandfather), and this is where the mystery appeared. Or I'm adding 2+2 and making 5  ::) or missing something obvious!

On 10 Nov 1895 at St Catherine's church, Pontypridd, William Brooks, widower, labourer, of 90 Trallwn Gardens, Pontypridd (father Samuel, labourer), married Sarah Ann Heath, also of 90 Trallwn Gardens. The address rang a bell and sure enough, it's very similar to the address where Joseph Brooks and Louisa Barnes were living at the time of their marriage in 1896.

A few years ago I found a death of an Elizabeth Brooks (aged 54) in Pontypridd in 1895 but the local register office had told me that she wasn't the wife of Samuel so I'd assumed she wasn't mine. But I've been back to them today and she was the wife of William Brooks, of 90 Middle Street, Trallwn, William a general contractor. This would seem to suggest - to me anyway - that my Samuel, father of Joseph, and William are the same man. William's death (6 Oct 1917, Pontypridd) is registered as William S, though probate is just William. I've not found a death for my Samuel.

The final bit of the puzzle is that 2 of the children of Samuel and Elizabeth had father's name recorded as William on the baptism register in the Isle of Man (in one case - see attached pic - the original S had been clearly overwritten by the full William), [IOM birth and baptism records]. Alice is on the 1871 and 1881 censuses with Samuel and Elizabeth. Sadly I've not found the marriage of Samuel and Elizabeth Carberry / Carbury to know anything more, father's name etc. 

Apologies for the long and no doubt confusing post.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Deirdre784

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,679
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Did my husband's 3rd great grandmother marry his 3rd great grandfather?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 21:28 GMT (UK) »
Just found the burial records of William Samuel Brooks (1917) and Elizabeth Brooks (1895), buried in the same plot in Glyntaff cemetery, Pontypridd, but no sign of Sarah Ann  :-\

And a George Henry Brooks (aged 13........ ) is buried with them, died March quarter 1895. Can't find an obvious birth though..... Will ring the cemetery and see if they can give any more info.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline [Ray]

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,562
  • UK Census information Crown Copyright
    • View Profile
Re: Did my husband's 3rd great grandmother marry his 3rd great grandfather?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 21:44 GMT (UK) »
Hi Deidre

The positive sign is that you've given us lots of "detail" but not the refs to prove.

So, we have to duplicate all of your research/mistakes/proofs to get to where you know you are.

How about adding the (exact) refs of what you have found, and where?

After all, we are trying to help you and you are asking for help.

Ray

 
"The wise man knows how little he knows, the foolish man does not". My Grandfather & Father.

"You canít give kindness away.  It keeps coming back". Mark Twain (?).

Offline Deirdre784

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,679
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Did my husband's 3rd great grandmother marry his 3rd great grandfather?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 22:02 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Ray, I've tried to add some references but most of my detail comes from the actual certificates. Looking for the 1891 census as I found it on FindMyPast rather than Ancestry.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline [Ray]

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,562
  • UK Census information Crown Copyright
    • View Profile
Re: Did my husband's 3rd great grandmother marry his 3rd great grandfather?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 22:13 GMT (UK) »

"Looking for the 1891 census as I found it on FindMyPast rather than Ancestry." 
Why "looking" if you have it?
Confirm the reference? Confirm ALL the detail of where it is?

You surely don't want us to spend all that time looking for something where you haven't told us what exactly you have found?

You have ALL the detail where we have none.

?

Ray


"The wise man knows how little he knows, the foolish man does not". My Grandfather & Father.

"You canít give kindness away.  It keeps coming back". Mark Twain (?).

Offline Deirdre784

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,679
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Did my husband's 3rd great grandmother marry his 3rd great grandfather?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 28 November 17 22:21 GMT (UK) »
I had the info but not the full reference which I have now added to the original post. I've added as much as I can but will ask for the topic to be removed.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....