Author Topic: Henry COPE and wife Rose CRANMER, Hackney 1870s  (Read 247 times)

Offline Dulciebun

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Henry COPE and wife Rose CRANMER, Hackney 1870s
« on: Wednesday 29 November 17 19:21 GMT (UK) »
Looking for facts, please.
Henry COPE and Rose CRANMER wed in 1872, Greenwich area.
Do they have any living descendants?

Rose CRANMER was the first daughter of Hedley CRANMER, who deserted his wife Esther & daughter Rose very quickly and went to Manchester, eventually getting "remarried".

Henry COPE born about 1845 seems to be London-based with links to Hackney and Walthamstow. Possibly a 'shipping clerk'.

I can find just one child of Henry + Rose, i.e. Frank H. COPE, born c. 1883. Frank COPE married Florence Bennett, but their son Kenneth died in WW2, 1943.

Rose COPE (nee Cranmer) died early, between 1881 - 1891 (can anyone find a record, please?) and Henry COPE married again (Sarah). The second family seems to have been fairly well researched, but the first marriage to Rose does not seem to be widely known about.

My own blood-line is through the Cranmers, and so I ask: were there any other COPE/CRANMER children born between the marriage in 1872 and the 1880s (London area), who might have carried on the line? I feel there should be....

With thanks to all who help. :-)

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Offline CaroleW

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Re: Henry COPE and wife Rose CRANMER, Hackney 1870s
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 29 November 17 19:33 GMT (UK) »
Quote
were there any other COPE/CRANMER children born between the marriage in 1872 and the 1880s (London area), who might have carried on the line? I feel there should be....

You can use the following link to search for Cope births with mmn Cranmer on the GRO website.  You have to register which is free unless you are already registered

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

I can't see any other birth before or after Frank
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Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Henry COPE and wife Rose CRANMER, Hackney 1870s
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 29 November 17 19:39 GMT (UK) »
One child

COPE, FRANK  HENRY     CRANMER     
GRO Reference: 1882  J Quarter in WEST HAM  Volume 04A  Page 203   

He is on the 1891 census with his father who is a widower.  Three of Henry's sisters are living with them.

Address is Linscott Road, Hackney, London & Middlesex
 

Offline CaroleW

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Re: Henry COPE and wife Rose CRANMER, Hackney 1870s
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 29 November 17 20:22 GMT (UK) »
Was Rose actually born Rosetta Cranmer?

Births June qtr 1851   
Cranmer    Rosetta   Bethnal Green    2   77
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Offline Dulciebun

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Re: Henry COPE and wife Rose CRANMER, Hackney 1870s
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 29 November 17 23:22 GMT (UK) »
One child

COPE, FRANK  HENRY     CRANMER     
GRO Reference: 1882  J Quarter in WEST HAM  Volume 04A  Page 203   

He is on the 1891 census with his father who is a widower.  Three of Henry's sisters are living with them.

Address is Linscott Road, Hackney, London & Middlesex

Thank you, kind of you... Yes, there's just little Frank there, isn't there - given the large size of families back then, it's unusual for a couple to have only the one child, in a marriage of at least 9 years, but I guess it does happen.

I saw an Edith Cope, servant, on the 1901 census, born 1875 in Hackney, living in West Ham, very close to (or with) a retired ship builder... I remembered Frank's father Henry Cope was or had been a shipping clerk, and wondered if there was any connection; could this be a daughter of his?

Something else to check out is whether Frank COPE had more children that I've already found.

My instinct says that there should be more people there, and that the line hasn't died out.

Offline Dulciebun

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Re: Henry COPE and wife Rose CRANMER, Hackney 1870s
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 29 November 17 23:26 GMT (UK) »
Was Rose actually born Rosetta Cranmer?

Births June qtr 1851   
Cranmer    Rosetta   Bethnal Green    2   77

Good idea... I haven't seen a printed record... I looked directly at the handwritten parish register which clearly shows a ROSE CRANMER daughter of Hedley Cranmer etc. The year of the record was 1858 but a contemporaneous note said the birth had been 1851, which ties in with what you've given me here. On the 1871/81 census her birth would be calculated as 1851 too.

Where's Bethnal Green, in relation to Hackney?

Offline Dulciebun

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Re: Henry COPE and wife Rose CRANMER, Hackney 1870s
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 29 November 17 23:30 GMT (UK) »
Quote
were there any other COPE/CRANMER children born between the marriage in 1872 and the 1880s (London area), who might have carried on the line? I feel there should be....

You can use the following link to search for Cope births with mmn Cranmer on the GRO website.  You have to register which is free unless you are already registered

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

I can't see any other birth before or after Frank

I haven't used this GRO site for a while so will definitely register and take a look, many thanks. Does it give mother's maiden name? (Too early for this feature, I'd have thought). If there's no mother's name, it's tricky to decide who the parents are, without paying for the birth certificate, and there are quite a lot of COPE families in this area of London.

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Henry COPE and wife Rose CRANMER, Hackney 1870s
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 29 November 17 23:44 GMT (UK) »
The GRO now shows all mother's maiden names where known from 1837 to 1916.  So unless a name has been misread children should be find-able.  If there is a dash that is indicative of a birth where the child's surname is the same as the mother's, i.e. illegitimate.

I did look but I couldn't see any other Cope/Cranmer combination.

Offline Dulciebun

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Re: Henry COPE and wife Rose CRANMER, Hackney 1870s
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 30 November 17 07:57 GMT (UK) »
The GRO now shows all mother's maiden names where known from 1837 to 1916.  So unless a name has been misread children should be find-able.  If there is a dash that is indicative of a birth where the child's surname is the same as the mother's, i.e. illegitimate.

I did look but I couldn't see any other Cope/Cranmer combination.

I didn't know they'd added the mother's name (how useful!) - and thank you for checking for me. The maiden-name addition will help me hugely in future searches. Shame there's no other Cope/Cranmer... so I'll now need to search to see if this one son, Frank Cope, had any more children. Very grateful :-)