Author Topic: Rosetta COPE nee CRANMER, born 1851, please help me find  (Read 633 times)

Offline Dulciebun

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Rosetta COPE nee CRANMER, born 1851, please help me find
« on: Friday 01 December 17 07:25 GMT (UK) »
Searching for death or re-marriage record for Rosetta COPE nee CRANMER, born 1851. No sightings after 1881.

Born 20.3. 1851 as Rosetta CRANMER, baptised 1859 as Rose CRANMER.
Rose CRANMER married Henry COPE in 1872, Hackney/Woolwich/Greenwich area.

1881 census shows Rose COPE (wife, aged 30) in a property on her own, in Walthamstow. Husband Henry Cope is with his brother, elsewhere.
1882 Rose COPE has a son, Frank Henry COPE.
Then nothing.

1891 Henry COPE says he's a widower (he has little Frank with him), and he remarries in 1893.

Looks like Frank Henry Cope was Rose Cope's first child after 9 years of marriage, she'd have been 31, it would have been dangerous in the 1880s - the child lived, but did she survive?

I can't find any credible Death record for a Rose or Rosetta Cope in the 1880s in this area (Middlesex/Essex).
Are there any Nonconformist registers we can consult?
Rose Cranmer/Cope came from a Scottish/Irish family and could have been Presbyterian.

If not, are there any Missing Person registers, from the 1880s?

Rose COPE disappears from sight after the birth of the child in 1882, which is very puzzling, since her husband lives till 1902 and her mother Esther CRANMER is in service close by and lives to 1894.
Henry COPE, widower, remarries a servant-girl who worked with Esther Cranmer, and whose family (Aylett) is a neighbour to the Copes, as if this girl had been chosen (or invited?) to replace a lost wife.

Other possible scenario is that Henry COPE began a liaison with the girl who became his second wife, and Rose COPE objected and left (and remarried)?

Suggestions please, for lines of enquiry. Many thanks.

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Offline rosie99

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Re: Rosetta COPE nee CRANMER, born 1851, please help me find
« Reply #1 on: Friday 01 December 17 08:07 GMT (UK) »
Have you considered that she may have been admitted to an institution following child birth with possibly post natal depression and is not shown under her full name but just initials

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Offline Dulciebun

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Re: Rosetta COPE nee CRANMER, born 1851, please help me find
« Reply #2 on: Friday 01 December 17 08:26 GMT (UK) »
Have you considered that she may have been admitted to an institution following child birth with possibly post natal depression and is not shown under her full name but just initials
.............

Thank you for this, it's a good idea... I know a lot of women have long-lasting difficulties after childbirth... What kinds of 'institutions' were around in the 1880s? What consultable records do we have?


Offline rosie99

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Re: Rosetta COPE nee CRANMER, born 1851, please help me find
« Reply #3 on: Friday 01 December 17 13:13 GMT (UK) »
Sorry I meant she would show on census with just initials
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Offline Dulciebun

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Re: Rosetta COPE nee CRANMER, born 1851, please help me find
« Reply #4 on: Friday 01 December 17 14:58 GMT (UK) »
Sorry I meant she would show on census with just initials

That's OK! You're perfectly right about the initials - and on the census I can see inmates at e.g. Broadmoor Asylum listed by their initials (and sex, and place of birth) which is helpful.  Several other members of this family ended their days in an Asylum for various reasons, so it's definitely a possibility. I will check further :-)

Offline jomcd967

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Re: Rosetta COPE nee CRANMER, born 1851, please help me find
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 02 December 17 02:41 GMT (UK) »
The Divorce Index on Find My Past has the following in 1886:

Cope (Henry) v C. ( Rose) & Fairchild (George).

A George Fairchild and wife Henrietta are living next door to Rose in 1881

Jo  :)
Puplett, Sonnex, Lott, Dunkiss, Hart - London area.
Hudson, Jenner, Dedman - Sussex
Leach, Hopkins, Saunders - Wales
Leach, Lipscombe - Hampshire
Sipthorpe - Lancashire
Walters - Cornawall & Australia
Kingshott, Matheson, Pitt, McDonald, Keogh - Australia.

Offline jomcd967

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Re: Rosetta COPE nee CRANMER, born 1851, please help me find
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 02 December 17 03:03 GMT (UK) »
George and Rosa are in the US, in Philadelphia on 1900 census, with various children.

Jo  :)
Puplett, Sonnex, Lott, Dunkiss, Hart - London area.
Hudson, Jenner, Dedman - Sussex
Leach, Hopkins, Saunders - Wales
Leach, Lipscombe - Hampshire
Sipthorpe - Lancashire
Walters - Cornawall & Australia
Kingshott, Matheson, Pitt, McDonald, Keogh - Australia.

Offline jomcd967

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Re: Rosetta COPE nee CRANMER, born 1851, please help me find
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 02 December 17 03:12 GMT (UK) »
Rose's grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/69817040
George died in 1910

Georges death certificate states he was born in England in 1851, his parents are listed as George and Rose Louisa Cope. I would suggest that as Rose died in 1902 the information was muddled up by the children with his wife's name instead of his mothers name given, his parents appear to be John and Elizabeth (as per English census records).

In 1900 census eldest son George is born abt 1886 in England, all other children born in Philadelphia, both George and Rose state that they immigrated in 1860! But in the 1910 census George, widower states he immigrated in 1885, eldest son George baptised in Philadelphia with several siblings in 1890.

Jo  :)
Puplett, Sonnex, Lott, Dunkiss, Hart - London area.
Hudson, Jenner, Dedman - Sussex
Leach, Hopkins, Saunders - Wales
Leach, Lipscombe - Hampshire
Sipthorpe - Lancashire
Walters - Cornawall & Australia
Kingshott, Matheson, Pitt, McDonald, Keogh - Australia.

Offline Dulciebun

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Re: Rosetta COPE nee CRANMER, born 1851, please help me find
« Reply #8 on: Monday 04 December 17 13:11 GMT (UK) »
George and Rosa are in the US, in Philadelphia on 1900 census, with various children.

Jo  :)

Hi there Jo, thank you for this fine piece of sleuthing... please help me understand... you say there are 3 names on a Divorce record (Find my Past)? I don't know how these records work: why are there 3 names here?

"Cope (Henry) v C. ( Rose) & Fairchild (George)"

Yes, I can see that there is a George Fairchild on the 1881 census living next to Rose Cope in Walthamstow. (28 Northcote Road).

Rose's husband Henry Cope also seems to have married in 1893 the (much younger) girl-next-door on the other side, Sarah Ann Aylett. Interesting!

How do I check out these USA records? Please teach me? There does seem to be some confusion over names...

I would love to believe that this is true, because I so wanted to find that Rose had survived past 1882, and there were children...You've got me very excited, and THANK YOU for your discoveries. Please keep writing. x