Author Topic: Seeking Caroline Louisa Gee and David Clark marriage, approx 1879, Liverpool  (Read 3674 times)

Offline bluesofa

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I need help to find the marriage of David Clark(e) and Caroline Louisa Gee, which I think occurred around 1879-1880 in Liverpool.  There's so many good records for Lancashire that I feel I must be missing something.

Caroline Clark is shown as a widow with her children in the 1901 Census.  A mixture of Catholic and Church of England baptism records show the father to be David, and Caroline to be formerly Gee. The family can be traced back to the 1881 census shortly after the first child, Alexander, was born.  However, I can not find a record of David and Caroline's marriage.

I've put references below, but some observations
  • The census records suggest Alexander's mother Caroline was born 1859-1860 (i.e. approx 20 when Alexander was born), while David was born 1846-1850
  • They also suggest the whole family was born in Liverpool, though family lore suggests they came from Scotland.
  • The 1881 census records David as Daniel
  • Alexander's birth was registered in 1879, while his Catholic baptism record shows (separately to the baptism) the birth year as 1880.
  • The military service record of David and Caroline's youngest son Richard shows Alexander as a full blood relation (as are all the other brothers/sisters listed, though one brother isn't listed)

I guess it is possible Caroline was previously married before David, and used her previously married name. Alternatively, either David's and/or Caroline's mother may have remarried, and so different surnames were used at the marriage.

Any thoughts as to what I may be missing, where/how to look next, would be very much appreciated.


==================================

Census Records (all born Liverpool)
  • 1881 Census; 73 Prince Edwin St; Clark, Daniel (31 yrs, Coach Smith), Careline (21), Alexander (2); Piece: 3657; Folio: 9; Page: 11
  • 1891 Census, 70 Shaw Street; Clark, David (44, Coach Maker), Caroline (31), Alexander (12), David (10), Arthur (7), Mary (5), John (4), Ester J (1 6/12); Piece: 2942; Folio: 121
  • 1901 Census, 64 Shaw Street; Clark, Caroline Louisa (42, widow), David (19), Arth James (17), Marion (15), John (14), Edith (12), James Gee (9), Rd Frank (6), Alexander (22, married); Piece: 3480; Folio: 48; Page: 27

GRO References, Mother's Maiden Surname Gee (I haven't confirmed with certificates yet)
  • Alexander Clarke Q2 1879 8b 527
  • David Clark Q2 1881 8b 383
  • Arthur James Clark Q1 1884 8b 300
  • Marian Caroline Louisa Clark Q1 1886 8b 339
  • No John Clark (who, of course, is the key ancestor, but consistent with family lore that his birth was not registred)
  • Edith Julia Clark Q4 1889 8b 283
  • James Gee Clark Q3 1892 8b 238
  • Richard Frank Venables Clark Q4 1894 8b 288

Catholic Baptisms,
St Francis Xavier (Francisci Xavarii); Liverpool, Lancashire, England, after Ancestry.com
Parents either David/Davids and Caroline/Carolinae formerly Gee

  • Alexander Clarke: b 11 Mar 1880, bap 23 Oct 1880,  Godmother Elizabeth Nolan
  • David Clarke: b 15 Apr 1881, bap 6 May 1881, Godmother Elizabeth Short
  • Arthur Jacobus Clark: b 1 Nov 1883, bap 16 Nov 1883, Godmother Mathilda Heenan
  • Maria Catherina Carolina Louisa Clark: b 25 Jan 1886, bap 13 Feb 1886, Godmother Agnes Neyland
  • Joannes Clark: b 6 May 1887, bap 1 Jun 1887, Godmother Emma Benton
  • Editha Julia Clark: b 3 Oct 1889, bap 14 Dec 1889, Godmother Brigitta Lythe
  • No James Gee
  • Richardus Franciscus Clarke, b 11 Nov 1894, bap 5 Dec 1894, Godmother  Margarita Maria FitzGerald

Church of England Baptisms, after Ancestry.com

St Peter, Liverpool
  • Arthur James Clark, bap 30 Dec 1883, parents David (Coach Smith) & Caroline Louisa, Everton

St Augustine, Liverpool
  • John Clark: bap 29 Dec 1889, parents David (Coachmaker) and Caroline Louisa, 95 Everton Road
  • Edith Julia Clark: bap 29 Dec 1889, parents David (Coachmaker) and Caroline Louisa, 95 Everton Road
  • James Gee Clark: bap 8 Jun 1892, parents David (Coachmaker) & Caroline Louisa, 64 Shaw St, Liverpool

Military Service Records
  • Alexander Clark, Royal Engineers, Reg/No 378864
  • David?
  • John?
  • James Gee Clark, Army Service Corps, Reg/No 049775
  • Richard Frances Clark, Cheshire, Reg/No 10164

I've had mixed success at tracing the family forward in the 1911 census
  • Alexander Clark m Ellen Parr (?) daughter Caroline Louisa Clark (b )  e.g. RG14-23106-149
  • Arthur James Clark m Ellen Poole? (1910) e.g. Class: RG14; Piece: 17996; Schedule No 131 (same address as on Richard's military records)

I speculate Caroline may have remarried (Alexander Clark), Class: RG14; Piece: 22077; Schedule Number 148

Online BumbleB

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Re: Seeking Caroline Louisa Gee and David Clark marriage, approx 1879, Liverpool
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 03 December 17 17:08 GMT (UK) »
I've had a look at FreeBMD which covers BMDs in England and Wales.  I cannot see a marriage between your two parties between 1875 and 1885.

Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
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Online CaroleW

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Re: Seeking Caroline Louisa Gee and David Clark marriage, approx 1879, Liverpool
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 03 December 17 17:10 GMT (UK) »
From freebmd

Births March qtr 1861   
Caroline Louisa Gee        West Derby    8b   289  mmn Howard

Marriages December qtr 1854   
James Gee        Liverpool    8b   279    
Julia Ann Howard
 
Family Search shows 1.10.1854 at Our Lady & St. Nicholas & St. Anne Liverpool
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Online CaroleW

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Re: Seeking Caroline Louisa Gee and David Clark marriage, approx 1879, Liverpool
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 03 December 17 17:29 GMT (UK) »
Death - David Clark aged 53 June qtr 1901   West Derby 8b 312

Only one Liverpool birth for a David Clark -  March qtr 1847 on freebmd

Only one for a David Clarke - Sept qtr 1850

Scottish 1851 has 34 entries for David Clark born 1846-1850 and 3 for Clarke.  A couple of others have middle initials
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)


Offline chempat

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Re: Seeking Caroline Louisa Gee and David Clark marriage, approx 1879, Liverpool
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 03 December 17 18:10 GMT (UK) »
If you believe she married in 1909 to Alexander Clark, then she married as Caroline Louisa Gee, which could imply that she had not been married before.

Offline chempat

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Re: Seeking Caroline Louisa Gee and David Clark marriage, approx 1879, Liverpool
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 03 December 17 18:17 GMT (UK) »
She pretends to be younger in 1911 than she really was because her husband is younger?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW3P-RHF

Online CaroleW

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Re: Seeking Caroline Louisa Gee and David Clark marriage, approx 1879, Liverpool
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 03 December 17 18:23 GMT (UK) »
www.cheshirebmd.org.uk shows it was a civil marriage so cannot be looked up

Have you tried researching Alexander as it seems rather strange her firstborn son is Alexander and she was with David Clark and marries an Alexander Clark

Could be that David and Alexander were related although there is quite an age difference - David 1848 and Alexander 1875
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Online CaroleW

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Re: Seeking Caroline Louisa Gee and David Clark marriage, approx 1879, Liverpool
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 03 December 17 18:44 GMT (UK) »
Could be his birth

Births June qtr 1877     
Alexander Clark     West Derby    8b   432  mmn Craw (possibly Crow)
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline isobelw

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Re: Seeking Caroline Louisa Gee and David Clark marriage, approx 1879, Liverpool
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 03 December 17 18:46 GMT (UK) »
I wonder if David Clark was already married. There is an 1871 census entry for a David ( transcribed as Davies on Ancestry) Clark age 24, a Coach Smith, born Liverpool with wife Mary E age 19 and daughter Abler? Age 24 mths. Matching marriage seems to be David Clark to Mary Ellen Squire in 1870 in Liverpool. Select marriages on Ancestry indicate marriage on 17/1/1870 with David's father being Alexander Clark and Mary Ellen's father being Walter James Squire. Don't see any obvious birth for the daughter under Clark(e) or Squire and no sign of any of them in 1881.
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