Talbot/Entwistle marriage in Bury, 1834

[colee]

I'm trying to confirm if the Thomas Talbut/Talbot who married Ann Entwistle on 30 November 1834 at St Mary the Virgin, Bury is my ancestor - ie the same Thomas Talbot who married Ann Makin at St Peter's in Bolton on July 1 1821, and seems to have married this second Ann weeks after his first wife Ann Makin and I think their daughter Susanna died in October 1834.

Is there any marriage info other than the parish register that would for example list the fathers of the bride and groom, so that I can find out who the father of this Ann Entwisle was (I think there were quite a few at the time) or did this only happen from 1837?

Thank you for any help.

[PaulineJ]

1837 onwards is when you get fathers info on marriages.

Marriage: 30 Nov 1834 St Mary the Virgin, Bury, Lancashire, England
Thomas Talbut - (X), Whitesmith, Widower, this Parish
Ann Entwistle - (X), Spinster, this Parish
    Witness: Joseph Davis; Thos. Fairclough, (X)
    Married by Banns by: Thos. P. Kirkman Curate
    Register: Marriages 1832 - 1837 From the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 284, Entry 850
    Source: LDS Film 1545467/1545468

[colee]

I feared as much. So anything before 1837 can be pretty tricky to fit together. Thanks for the confirmation.

[heywood]

Hello,

You are looking at two different towns which might help your searching.

Thomas Talbot is a widower and Whitesmith on his marriage in 1834 Bury.

There are baptisms in Bury
1813 Rachel Talbut with parents Thomas (Nailer) and Sarah.
1820 William Talbut with parents Thomas (Nailer) and Sarah.

This may be the Thomas who marries in 1834.

It might not be either but I wouldn’t give up just yet,

Do you have any occupation for your Thomas?

I see there is a Blacksmith in Bolton so my theory may be totally wrong!

There is a baptism of a Jane Talbot 1846 with parents Thomas and Ann in Bolton.
GRO gives mmn as Entwistle 

I will leave it with you as you might already have that.



Heywood

[colee]

Hi Heywood

My conundrum is that I have this marriage:

Marriage: 1 Jul 1821 St Peter, Bolton, Lancs.
Thomas Talbot - This parish
Ann Makin - This parish

These deaths:

Burial: 9 Oct 1834 Holy Trinity, Bolton, Lancashire, England
Ann Talbert -
    Age: 37 Years
    Abode: Great Bolton
    Register: Burials 1827 - 1842, Page 12, Entry 222
    Source: LDS Film 1966122

Burial: 12 Oct 1834 Holy Trinity, Bolton, Lancashire, England
Susannah Talbert - Daughter of Thomas Talbert
    Age: 12 Years & 4 Months
    Abode: Great Bolton
    Register: Burials 1827 - 1842, Page 12, Entry 223
    Source: LDS Film 1966122

Also, my 3x great grandmother Ellen who I'm thinking is Susannah's sister, but I can't find a birth register entry for either Ellen or Susannah. Susannah died in 1834 so giving her birth as 1822, which fits with the 1821 marriage at St Peter. And Ellen aged 15 in the census would give her birth as 1826, and too old to be the daughter of the Anne aged 30 married to Thomas in 1841.

Ellen's Marriage: 5 Apr 1846 St Peter, Bolton, Lancashire, England
Peter Smith - (X), Full, Spinner, Bachelor, Great Bolton
Ellen Talbot - (X), Full, Spinster, Great Bolton
    Groom's Father: John Smith, Weaver
    Bride's Father: Thomas Talbot, Foreman
    Witness: Joseph Haworth; James Liptrot
    Married by Banns by: Thos. Loxham Curate
    Register: Marriages 1846 - 1847, Page 15, Entry 30
    Source: Microfilm of register at Manchester Library

So, I couldn't find a remarriage for Thomas apart from the one in Bury - but researching his children (from the 1841 census):

Thomas Talbot   40
Ann Talbot   30
Ellen Talbot   15
Martha Talbot   10
Joseph Talbot   10
Betzy Talbot   7
Mary Ann Talbot   5
Catherine Talbot   3 then also Esther (born 1843) and Jane (born 1846) whose mother's maiden name according to the lanbmd was Entwistle.

Perhaps there were 3 Annes?! Or perhaps there were other children between Catherine and Esther who died.

Thomas is generally described as a blacksmith, and later foreman, but in the 1871 census as a whitesmith.

I was wondering if Thomas 'went off' to Bury to marry Ann Entwistle as it was so close to the death of his first wife and daughter. But the other children you have found suggests that this is a different Thomas altogether?

Quite a puzzle. Thank you for any help you can give me in unravelling it, and thank you for your encouragement too!

[heywood]

I was just looking as you posted.
Just to say that Sarah Taulbut is in 1841 with some family so perhaps Thomas is deceased. That is the Bury group.

[heywood]

There are baptisms for some of the later children which tie in with GRO for mmn Enrwustle.
Ellen is with Thomas and Ann in 1841.
Perhaps Ann was living in Bury at the time. She shows as born Bolton as do the children.

[colee]

Yes, Esther and Jane show up as mmn Entwistle on GRO which is what holds me to the Bury marriage but I don't think I'd be able to confirm that for any of the others as they were born before July 1837.

[heywood]

There is also Thomas b 1839 and dies 1840.