Author Topic: Photo ID?  (Read 912 times)

Offline Guy Etchells

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Photo ID?
« on: Monday 04 December 17 12:24 GMT (UK) »
I have a couple of daguerreotypes or ambrotypes that I have no identification for, both are in small cases one red one brown.
I have uploaded a rough and ready page showing the likely connections and possible relations. For some reason Elizabeth Dutton’s image does not want to appear above her name but is the 1st picture on the page (top line left hand image)
I should also note that William Guy married  Elizabeth Dutton not Mary Dutton but every time I try to change something, something else gets disrupted.

http://www.anguline.co.uk/fampics/Pics.htm

I think one ( image 4) may be Mary Anne Hickling but she had 5 sisters so image 4 is possibly a sister rather than Mary Anne.
On the other had Mary Anne is my grandfather’s mother so I think it is more likely a second photo of her.

Image 5 & 6 are digital photos of the same daguerreotype but due to lighting conditions are slightly different and I cannot decide which would be the most useful here.
They may also be of Mary Anne but there do seem to be subtle differences (Mary Anne seems to have a more pointed chin)

I would like to hear other people’s opinions please.

Cheers
Guy
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Offline Treetotal

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Re: Photo ID?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 04 December 17 13:25 GMT (UK) »
Hi Guy...Daguerreotypes are metal and Ambrotypes are glass...a magnet with tell if they are Daguerreotypes.
I have messaged Jim to get him to take a look as his dating is more accurate than mine...You are very lucky to have them.
Dates of when the women were born would help too.
Carol
CAPES Hull. KIRK  Leeds, Hull. JONES  Wales,  Lancashire. CARROLL Ireland, Lancashire, U.S.A. BROUGHTON Leicester, Goole, Hull BORRILL  Lincolnshire, Durham, Hull. GROOM  Wishbech, Hull. ANTHONY St. John's Nfld. BUCKNALL Lincolnshire, Hull. BUTT Harbour Grace, Newfoundland. PARSONS  Western Bay, Newfoundland. MONAGHAN  Ireland, U.S.A. PERRY Cheshire, Liverpool.
 
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Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Photo ID?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 04 December 17 15:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi Guy...Daguerreotypes are metal and Ambrotypes are glass...a magnet with tell if they are Daguerreotypes.
I have messaged Jim to get him to take a look as his dating is more accurate than mine...You are very lucky to have them.
Dates of when the women were born would help too.
Carol

Thanks Carol.

Yes unfortunately three are framed with glass front and wooden backs and the two in cases are also protected from a small magnet except from the glass front and I would be cautious to use a big magnet on them there in case I cracked the glass.

The life spans are 1800-1881, 1801-1856, 1832-1888 (not sure about the two in cases) which really means they could be either process or even tintype.
I think the image of Elizabeth Dutton (top left) could be a tintype as the background looks to be painted black rather than the grey it appears on the photo.

The three in frames are identified but the two in cases have no id on them.

Cheers
Guy

PS I have added a slightly better close up image of Elizabeth Dutton here
http://www.anguline.co.uk/fampics//Elizabeth_Dutton_cu.jpg
http://anguline.co.uk/Framland/index.htm   The site that gives you facts not promises!
http://burial-inscriptions.co.uk Tombstones & Monumental Inscriptions.

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Offline Treetotal

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Re: Photo ID?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 04 December 17 15:51 GMT (UK) »
I see what you mean now...See here:

 http://www.cycleback.com/photoguide/dags.html

Carol
CAPES Hull. KIRK  Leeds, Hull. JONES  Wales,  Lancashire. CARROLL Ireland, Lancashire, U.S.A. BROUGHTON Leicester, Goole, Hull BORRILL  Lincolnshire, Durham, Hull. GROOM  Wishbech, Hull. ANTHONY St. John's Nfld. BUCKNALL Lincolnshire, Hull. BUTT Harbour Grace, Newfoundland. PARSONS  Western Bay, Newfoundland. MONAGHAN  Ireland, U.S.A. PERRY Cheshire, Liverpool.
 
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Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Photo ID?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 04 December 17 16:16 GMT (UK) »
Thanks.

What I mean is they are all either in frames or in a case.
There is at least an eight of an inch beteen the image and the glass and the one of Elizabeth Dutton has about half an inch between the image and the glass.

Without taking them apart, which I am not going to even attempt I cannot see if they are printed on glass.
One of the ones in a small case (image 4) is very reflective, like a mirror so I suspect it is an ambrotype.
Really I am hoping someone may be able to date the two at the bottom image 4 and images 5/6 by the hair styles of dress styles etc.

Cheers
Guy
http://anguline.co.uk/Framland/index.htm   The site that gives you facts not promises!
http://burial-inscriptions.co.uk Tombstones & Monumental Inscriptions.

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Offline jim1

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Re: Photo ID?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 04 December 17 16:19 GMT (UK) »
First just for clarification Dags are on copper so not magnetic.
If it's a Dag you will lose the image if viewed at an angle which you don't get with Ambro's.
They look to me to be 1850's Ambrotypes but could be into the early 60's.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline Treetotal

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Re: Photo ID?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 04 December 17 17:00 GMT (UK) »
Oops...schoolgirl error...that's tintypes that are magnetic :-[
Thanks for wading in with your expert opinion Jim  ;)
Carol
CAPES Hull. KIRK  Leeds, Hull. JONES  Wales,  Lancashire. CARROLL Ireland, Lancashire, U.S.A. BROUGHTON Leicester, Goole, Hull BORRILL  Lincolnshire, Durham, Hull. GROOM  Wishbech, Hull. ANTHONY St. John's Nfld. BUCKNALL Lincolnshire, Hull. BUTT Harbour Grace, Newfoundland. PARSONS  Western Bay, Newfoundland. MONAGHAN  Ireland, U.S.A. PERRY Cheshire, Liverpool.
 
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Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Photo ID?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 04 December 17 17:31 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Jim, two of the framed images Ann Phipps (1800-1881) image 2 and Mary Anne Hickling (1832-1888) image 3 seem very flat and can be viewed from all angles so from your description are Ambrotypes.
The larger image Elizabeth Dutton (1801-1856) image1 (top left) may also be a Ambrotypes but it seems to have the background painted black and when you look at it at an angle the person seems to be on a very slightly different level than the background.

The two which are in small cases are probably Daguerreotypes the image disappears when you look at them from an angle and they are very reflective like a mirror.

Cheers
Guy
http://anguline.co.uk/Framland/index.htm   The site that gives you facts not promises!
http://burial-inscriptions.co.uk Tombstones & Monumental Inscriptions.

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Offline jim1

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Re: Photo ID?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 04 December 17 18:10 GMT (UK) »
Quote
The two which are in small cases are probably Daguerreotypes the image disappears when you look at them from an angle and they are very reflective like a mirror
.
These are definitely Daguerreotypes & would date them slightly earlier as they were superseded by Ambrotypes in 1851 but there may have been a period where they ran together.
So late 1840's-v.early 1850's for those 2.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/