John Jones - Liverpool

[kjmck]

I'm looking for any info on the above John Jones.

I recently received the marriage certificate of Arthur Thomas Jones & Annie Hargreaves. This marriage took place on 1 August 1931 in Liverpool St Silas Parish Church.

Arthur was the son of John Jones & Elizabeth m.s. Jones. Arthur was born 08/12/1907 in Liverpool. On this Marriage certificate John Jones is listed as an Engine Driver.

In 1911 Arthur is living in the household of Thomas Hawksey (who was his maternal grandmother's second husband). His mother Elizabeth, now O'Flaherty after marrying Patrick O'Flaherty in 1909 (presumably after she was widowed), is 34. The other children living there are -

John Jones (13) Liverpool
William John Jones (11) Liverpool
Elizabeth Ann (9) Liverpool
Arthur Thomas (3) Liverpool

If anyone can help me find the marriage of John & Elizabeth or of them together in the 1901 Census, hopefully eventually leading me to finding out the parentage of John, I would be very grateful! I'm guessing that John died between 1907 - 1909 and that he and Elizabeth married in the 1890's.

Thank you!

Quick amendment - I have found the above Thomas Hawksey in 1901.

Thomas Hawksey (63) - Head of Household
John Hawksey (14) - Son
Elizabeth Jones (22) - Listed as single & Step Daughter.
John Jones (3) - Step Son
William Jones (3 Months) - Step Son.

Maybe this means that John Jones wasn't the father of John jr. & William. 

[Kay99]

The  marriage of Elizabeth Jones to her second? husband Patrick O'Flaherty was on 9 Jul 1909 at St Peters Liverpool.  It lists her address as Jervis St (where the family was living in  1911) and Elizabeth was age 34 - single - with father listed Thomas Jones - although someone has added a comment that "Elizabeth's father was John Jones. Her stepfather was Thomas(Hawksey)"

Do you have William John or John's birth certs to see whether a father was listed??  - Or Arthur Thomas's birth cert??

Kay

Added - In 1901 William was 3 months old so this could well be him

 WILLIAM  JOHN  JONES - No mother's maiden name
GRO Ref: 1901  March Qrtr LIVERPOOL  Vol 08B  Page 89

[kjmck]

Yes her stepfather was Thomas Hawksey. Thomas Hawksey & Elizabeth Jones nee Goodwin married 8 August 1886 Liverpool St Silas, Pembroke Place, Lancashire.

There is a record for marriage banns on 7 May 1893 also in Liverpool St Silas, Pembroke Place between an Elizabeth Jones & William Jones.

I don't have the birth certificate for Arthur Thomas Jones as of yet, only the GRO registration -

JONES, ARTHUR  THOMAS     JONES     Order
GRO Reference: 1908  M Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 93

There is also this one but the dates don't fit -

JONES, ARTHUR  THOMAS     -     Order
GRO Reference: 1906  M Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 128

I would have thought if Arthur was illegitimate there would be no mother's maiden name as there wasn't on William John's birth registration?

Keelan

[lancsann]

I would guess the 1906 Arthur was the son of Gladys Maggies Jones - no father named on baptism record

I agree that if the name Jones appears as the mmn it would mean that the parents were both born Jones

[kjmck]

It just seems that finding the Marriage for Arthur's parents is going to be a tough one if not near impossible.

In 1901 Elizabeth is listed as single yet living with who i now presume are her illegitimate children. And then in 1907 when Arthur is born she has a partner who is listed on the birth record for Arthur, yet in 1909 when she marries Patrick O'Flaherty she isn't listed as being a Widow etc.

I'm not too sure what to think.

[Kay99]

Maybe you need to get the birth cert for  Arthur Thomas     The 1908 birth does look  the most likely.   

There does seem quite a gap between Elizabeth Ann and Arthur Thomas's births but both appear to have the mother's maiden name Jones 

Kay