Author Topic: WW1 record guidance  (Read 2021 times)

Offline jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,138
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 16 December 17 16:42 GMT (UK) »
It may be as Newburychap said there's been an admin. cock up.
Gazetted 12 months after he died sounds a bit off so maybe your man was the one awarded it as per the Gazette entry but with the wrong number. However I can't see anything in the 10/Batt. war diary about it from July-Dec. 1918.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Alfy Campbell

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 16 December 17 16:58 GMT (UK) »
Really strange, but appreciate your help.  Thank you

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,138
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 16 December 17 17:11 GMT (UK) »
Sorted.
Awarded his DCM (with the 5th. Batt.) for his part in the assault on the Hindenburg Line 24-28th. Aug. 1918. He was given the 200183 number of the previous holder also J. Campbell who died in Nov. 1917.
On their arrival in France (April 1918) the C.O. lists all his men by name, rank & number & your man wasn't with them at that time.
June 1918 the 10th. Batt. returned to England & that was probably when he was transferred to the 5th.
Back with more later.
Later:
The 5/HLI were part of a major assault on the Hindenburg Line which was a huge (meant to be impregnable) trench system. It was formidable.
The below map shows the advance on the line (yellow) on the 24th. Aug.
On the 27th. they were ordered from that position & tasked with taking Fontaine Croisilles.
It was here E. of the Hindenburg Line he won his DCM.
Full map here: http://maps.nls.uk/view/101465074
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline Alfy Campbell

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 16 December 17 19:17 GMT (UK) »
Really appreciate this Jim, thank you so much.

Offline jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,138
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 16 December 17 21:29 GMT (UK) »
Precise locations of the captured weapons are indicated on this map. Square U.7 on the larger map.
They had made their way across the Sensee River & were heading towards the road when they encountered a field gun on the opposite side of the road firing at them from point blank range. They captured it & made their way into the command trench where they captured the 5 MG's plus several secret documents & other "trophies" as they called them.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline Alfy Campbell

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 17 December 17 09:51 GMT (UK) »
Amazing informative and really brave men.  Thank you Jim.

Offline Alfy Campbell

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 17 December 17 14:47 GMT (UK) »
Jim or anyone else since you guys have been so helpful could any of yous find me my other great papa John Greer – Royal Scots – Military Medal
A full platoon were holding a trench on 27th August 1918 when the works were mined and a
heavy loss of life was caused. Some sixteen of the men stuck to the ruins of the trench and held
the position all day, in face of a heavy bombardment. For their dogged bravery there soldiers
were recommended for the Military Medal.

I don’t have any army number for him,  I also know that he lost 2 brother a James and William mm also. There was an Abraham and a Thomas also involved I have information on William and James but nothing for Abraham and Thomas no army numbers to get me started

Offline jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,138
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 17 December 17 16:23 GMT (UK) »
No service record survives but his full placements were:
1/A & SH - 9751
12/A & SH - same number
11/Scottish Rifles - 27436
1/Scottish Rifles - same number
15/R.Scots - 51427
12/R.Scots - same number
This is what the LLT says about them:
A & SH
1st Battalion
August 1914 : in Dinapore, India. Returned to England, landing Plymouth on 19 November 1914. Moved to Winchester and came under orders of 81st Brigade in 27th Division.
20 December 1914 : landed at Le Havre.
Later moved to Salonika, arriving 12 December 1915

12th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Stirling in September 1914 as part of K3 and came under orders of 77th Brigade in 26th Division. Moved to Codford St Mary and went into billets in Bristol in November 1914. Moved to Sutton Veny in April 1915.
20 September 1915 : landed at Boulogne but soon moved and by November 1915 was at Salonika.

S.Rifles
11th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Hamilton in October 1914 as part of K3 and came under orders of 77th Brigade in 26th Division. Moved to Codford St Mary but by December 1914 was in billets in Bristol. Moved to Warminster in February 1915 and Sutton Veny in April.
Landed at Boulogne on 20 September 1915 but sailed for Salonika in November 1915.

1st Battalion
August 1914 : in Glasgow. Left by train for Southampton late on 13 August 1914. Next day, embarked on the SS “Caledonia” and sailed.
15 August 1914 : landed at Le Havre as Lines of Communication troops.
22 August 1914 : came under orders of 19th Infantry Brigade, which was not allocated to a Division but was an independent command at this time.
12 October 1914 : transferred with Brigade to 6th Division.
31 May 1915 : transferred with Brigade to 27th Division.
19 August 1915 : transferred with Brigade to 2nd Division.
25 November 1915 : transferred with Brigade to 33rd Division.

R.Scots.
15th (Service) Battalion (1st Edinburgh)
Formed at Edinburgh in September 1914 by the Lord Provost and City, although some 550 men were recruited in Manchester and for this reason the Battalion is sometimes referred to as the Manchester Scottish. Moved to Troon March 1915.
June 1915 : moved to Ripon and attached to 101st Brigade, 34th Division. Moved to Sutton Veny September 1915.
Landed at Le Havre 8 January 1916.
16 May 1918 : reduced to cadre strength after suffering heavy casualties.
17 May 1918 : attached to 39th Division.
14 August 1918 : disbanded in France.

12th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Edinburgh, August 1914, as part of K1.
August 1914 : attached to 27th Brigade, 9th (Scottish) Division and moved to Bordon.
Landed in France May 1915.


You can see that his first 3 Batts. were all in Salonika at the same time which is when he probably transferred from one to the other.
He must have gone to France with the 1/A & SH as they were the only Batt. there at the time he qualified for his 15 Star (6/3/15).
At some point he returned to France  & ended his service with the 12/RS this was probably after the 15/RS was disbanded.
If you can give the exact dates on the birth certs. against which Regt./Batt. he was in we might be able to tweak the dates of transfer.

1 Abraham Greer + 1 Abraham John Greer. He died & was from Ireland so not him.
This leaves:
Abraham Greer 16/HLI no. 23593 & 5/HLI no. 291985 (5/Batt. were TF hence the 6 digit number).
Not correct his 2nd. unit was 5/Gordon Highlanders no. 291985. They were also a Territorial Force Batt.

Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline Alfy Campbell

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 17 December 17 16:41 GMT (UK) »
10/2/1916 is lcpl in 12 batt A+SH not present on birth
29/1/1918 private 3rd Scott’s rifles present at birth.