Author Topic: WW1 record guidance  (Read 6455 times)

Offline Alfy Campbell

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 94
  • what an amazing site
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #36 on: Monday 18 December 17 14:21 GMT (UK) »
Finding all this so interesting.  It amazing the knowledge you guys can get a hold of.
Campbell, Greer, Hamilton, Brown, Arnott, Gardner, Smith, Stewart

Online jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,428
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #37 on: Monday 18 December 17 17:47 GMT (UK) »
Just to round him off it looks like John Greer probably attested around Xmas 1914 & after his 3 months training was posted to the 1/A & SH arriving in France March 1915 (15 Star). By the end of the year the 1st. & 12th Batts. were in Salonica. He's transferred from one to the other during 1916 & then into the 11th. Scottish Rifles. All of the above remained in that theatre for the duration.
At some point he's been posted the 1/S. Rifles (France).
For whatever reason he's been posted to the UK & the 3/S. Rifles.
Then back to France (1918) with the 15.R.Scots. & finishing his time with the 12/R.Scots. where he's awarded his MM.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Online jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,428
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #38 on: Wednesday 20 December 17 12:05 GMT (UK) »
This is what the poster has sent.
William Greer – Lance Corporal 335840 – Royal Scots 8th Battalion
Another of Overtown’s soldier sons to get a place in the distinguished
honours line was Lance Corporal William Greer, Royal Scots, who was
awarded the Military Medal for gallantry in leading his men up to the
trenches under heavy shell fire. He was congratulated by the Major- General
commanding the division, and also by his officer, who wrote:-
“I am glad that you have been rewarded not only for what you did the night
before the push, but for the good work you have always done. There is no
man in the company more deserving of recognition but you, and I am proud to
have you in my platoon. It has always been a pleasure to me to see how well you tackled any job
given you to do. I am sure that I speak for the platoon when I say we all congratulate you and
thank you for the service you have done us.”
Private Greer initially joined the Highland Light Infantry (7898) and transferred to the Royal
Scots, he landed in France 17th February 1915.

James Greer 1 Stone Row Highland Light Infantry (b 1882) kia 6 June 1917
John Greer 40 Castlehill Fues Royal Scots (b 1891)
Humphrey Greer 18 Castlehill Fues Royal Field Artillery (b1892)
William Greer 6 Castlehill Fues Royal Scots (b 1895) kia 11 April 1918
Abraham Greer 40 Castlehill Fues Highland Light Infantry (b 1898)

My reply:
I'm glad you've got William's service numbers because there are lots of William, James & Thomas Greers on the Rolls.
I know about Humphrey he was 225968 & a Special Reservist Class P. I believe this pretty much exempted him from active service because of his job so no medals awarded.
James Buchanan Greer was 39747 2/HLI.
Abraham Greer 16/HLI no. 23593.
His 2nd. unit was 5/Gordon Highlanders no. 291985.
First thing to say is that James Greer died 6/12/17
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Online jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,428
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #39 on: Wednesday 20 December 17 13:10 GMT (UK) »
Looking at James I can tell you he was in the Hindenburg line between Hermies & Moeuvres France.
The army had  attacked & taken the Hindenburg front line days earlier & the Germans brought up a huge number of reinforcements in order to take it back which they succeeded in achieving.
2/HLI were forced back to the old British front line where they were ordered to make their stand.
As this area had been abandoned previously large numbers of men were brought up at night to beef up it's defences.
As well as holding this position 2/HLI also sent out men to man posts which was now in no-mans-land.
The trench map has been overlayed with a deployment sketch map made by the CO showing the disposition of their front line positions & posts. The Hindenburg Line is on the right.
Full map K1 & 2: http://maps.nls.uk/view/101724042
He was one of 3 men to die that day.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/


Offline aak1957

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #40 on: Thursday 21 December 17 10:52 GMT (UK) »
According to the below record, on invisionzone, the Dundee Courier of 14 May 1915 says John Greer from Wishaw was recommended for the DCM. 

I've also seen the below quoted from another source, supposedly quoting the Gazette, but I can't find it myself:

"A full platoon were holding a trench "on 27th August 1918" when the works were mined and a heavy loss of life was caused.  Some sixteen of the men stuck to the ruins of the trench and held the position all day, in face of a heavy bombardment.  For their dogged bravery there soldiers were recommended for the Military Medal. (London Gazette, 17 June 1919)"

Was the action in 1915 or 1918?

See attachment:

Smith, Smyth, Greer, Grier, Leslie, Henning, Heenan

Offline aak1957

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #41 on: Thursday 21 December 17 11:47 GMT (UK) »
This is what the poster has sent.
William Greer – Lance Corporal 335840 – Royal Scots 8th Battalion
Another of Overtown’s soldier sons to get a place in the distinguished
honours line was Lance Corporal William Greer, Royal Scots, who was
awarded the Military Medal for gallantry in leading his men up to the
trenches under heavy shell fire. He was congratulated by the Major- General
commanding the division, and also by his officer, who wrote:-
“I am glad that you have been rewarded not only for what you did the night
before the push, but for the good work you have always done. There is no
man in the company more deserving of recognition but you, and I am proud to
have you in my platoon. It has always been a pleasure to me to see how well you tackled any job
given you to do. I am sure that I speak for the platoon when I say we all congratulate you and
thank you for the service you have done us.”
Private Greer initially joined the Highland Light Infantry (7898) and transferred to the Royal
Scots, he landed in France 17th February 1915.


James Greer 1 Stone Row Highland Light Infantry (b 1882) kia 6 June 1917
John Greer 40 Castlehill Fues Royal Scots (b 1891)
Humphrey Greer 18 Castlehill Fues Royal Field Artillery (b1892)
William Greer 6 Castlehill Fues Royal Scots (b 1895) kia 11 April 1918
Abraham Greer 40 Castlehill Fues Highland Light Infantry (b 1898)
My reply:
I'm glad you've got William's service numbers because there are lots of William, James & Thomas Greers on the Rolls.
I know about Humphrey he was 225968 & a Special Reservist Class P. I believe this pretty much exempted him from active service because of his job so no medals awarded.
James Buchanan Greer was 39747 2/HLI.
Abraham Greer 16/HLI no. 23593.
His 2nd. unit was 5/Gordon Highlanders no. 291985.
First thing to say is that James Greer died 6/12/17

Here are two photos of William Greer. On the first he is seated with his brother Abraham standing. On the second he is on the right and I think you can see his MM ribbon. Can you help identify the brother he is alongside from his uniform. I know they changed regiments frequently. Any other info about the uniforms would be appreciated.

James Greer, Highland Light Infantry, (b 1882) kia 6 June 1917
John Greer, Royal Scots, (b 1891)
Humphrey Greer, Royal Field Artillery, (b1892)
William Greer, Royal Scots, (b 1895) kia 11 April 1918
Abraham Greer, Highland Light Infantry, (b 1898)
Smith, Smyth, Greer, Grier, Leslie, Henning, Heenan

Online jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,428
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #42 on: Thursday 21 December 17 13:40 GMT (UK) »
Great to see photos of these boys.
He also has 1 good conduct stripe & a wound stripe.
Gazetted 15/6/1917.
How confident are you that the other chap is a brother?
His cap badge looks very similar to the Lorne Scots who were Canadian.
William lost his life here in the area R19 & Q24:
http://maps.nls.uk/view/101723830
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline MaxD

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 8,056
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #43 on: Thursday 21 December 17 14:35 GMT (UK) »
Was the action in 1915 or 1918?

The description of the 1915 action in the newspaper is essentially identical to the description of the August 1918 action given at the beginning of the Greer element of this thread which has been shown to be the wrong date and which it has been suggested took place in Sep 1918.

In addition, although the newspaper suggest that he (John Greer) and others were recommended for a DCM, there is no record of them actually being awarded  that medal.  The LG page posted is for Greer's Military Medal which may or may not be for the same (1915) action.  Capt Porteous mentioned was killed on 10 May 1915, he has a DSO and MID.

Unless the Dundee Courier was uncanningly prescient, it does seem that the  story and dates have  become mixed up over the years.

Tha action described clearly took place in 1915 (hope to find it soon in the war diary), the result as far as John Greer was concerned appears to be an MM awarded in 1919.

Pte Ballingall is descibed as having been wonded, he appears on a sick list with the date 17 April 1915 which might narrow down the search a bit.

MaxD

I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Online jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,428
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
Re: WW1 record guidance
« Reply #44 on: Thursday 21 December 17 14:57 GMT (UK) »
Hi MaxD
I'm not sure it says he was recommended for the DCM. The way I'm reading it they were giving qualifying evidence for their CO.
Sort of located it in the war diary & it appears to be on the 14th. May 1915 which flies in the face of Capt. Porteus' death.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/