Author Topic: Air accident Warren Point, Isle of Sheppey, Kent October 1940  (Read 4528 times)

Online jim1

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Re: Air accident Warren Point, Isle of Sheppey, Kent October 1940
« Reply #9 on: Friday 08 December 17 20:17 GMT (UK) »
Fld perhaps= in the field.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
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Offline MaxD

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Re: Air accident Warren Point, Isle of Sheppey, Kent October 1940
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 09 December 17 09:41 GMT (UK) »
Of course.

I am a tad uncomfortable with my first guess so I have deleted it.

MaxD
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline yattonharry

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Re: Air accident Warren [Warden] Point, Isle of Sheppey, Kent October 1940
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 09 December 17 10:21 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much MaxD. Not sure where this card was sourced which I would quite like to know and understand. What is an MID please? RA Attestation = Royal Air Force Attestation?
WALES: Bevan, David, Thomas in area of Ystradyfodwg [Rhondda] Llangeinor and Bettws [Glam] Glamorgan Farms of interest: Graigddu, Gwaunadda, Llwynypia, Maesllan, Penygraig and Cwmsaerbren | RAYMOND, St Davids Pembrokeshire; OWEN St Davids Pembrokeshire; JONES Upper Neath Valley;
ENGLAND: Somerset, Yatton, Kenn, Portishead, Weston-i-Gardano, Clevedon & Bristol. Names: Nethway, Perris, Knight, Gosling, Payne.

Online ShaunJ

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Re: Air accident Warren Point, Isle of Sheppey, Kent October 1940
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 09 December 17 10:44 GMT (UK) »
RA = Royal Artillery. He was in the army, not the RAF.

There are lists of wartime aircraft crashes on Sheppey here. Nothing on 14 October 1940.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline yattonharry

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Re: Air accident Warren Point, Isle of Sheppey, Kent October 1940
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 09 December 17 10:59 GMT (UK) »
 Many thanks for that information. Thanks I have scoured that site and as you did not find anything for that date.
 http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=520.0
WALES: Bevan, David, Thomas in area of Ystradyfodwg [Rhondda] Llangeinor and Bettws [Glam] Glamorgan Farms of interest: Graigddu, Gwaunadda, Llwynypia, Maesllan, Penygraig and Cwmsaerbren | RAYMOND, St Davids Pembrokeshire; OWEN St Davids Pembrokeshire; JONES Upper Neath Valley;
ENGLAND: Somerset, Yatton, Kenn, Portishead, Weston-i-Gardano, Clevedon & Bristol. Names: Nethway, Perris, Knight, Gosling, Payne.

Offline MaxD

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Re: Air accident Warren Point, Isle of Sheppey, Kent October 1940
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 09 December 17 11:04 GMT (UK) »
The RA Casualty Cards and the RA Attestation books (joining up details) are on FindmyPast.  The latter shows he joined the army in 1922.  MID is Mention(ed) in Despatches.  They are published in the London Gazette and there is only one entry for him, in the list that relates to the pre-Dunkirk period.  Only his record will show what he was doing on Sheppey in October 1940.  His unit is given as 115 Field Regiment, the RA Museum and Library at Larkhill (sd@artillerymuseum.com) would be able, against a fee, search out where they were at the time.  I would be wary however.  Men very often changed units, particularly after Dunkirk and records didn't always catch up with the changes straight away.  Only his service record (£30 from MOD) (or death cert £9.25 or £6 for a pdf) will, as said before, give the real story.

MaxD
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Online ShaunJ

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Re: Air accident Warren Point, Isle of Sheppey, Kent October 1940
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 09 December 17 11:51 GMT (UK) »
The war diary of 115 Field Regiment for that period is at TNA http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C787583
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Air accident Warren Point, Isle of Sheppey, Kent October 1940
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 09 December 17 12:04 GMT (UK) »
What evidence is there that it was a flying accident when he was in the Royal Artillery.
Are you sure it's not Warden Point Isle of Sheppey ?

Warden Point, Isle of Sheppey had a Sound Mirror.

Regarding the Radar Early Warning (by wireless detection type means) that enemy aircraft were approaching this phrase banded about on TV gives the wrong impression for 1940 and is totally misleading.

The 1940 Summer files at TNA, Kew, indicate that only 50% of aircraft approaching the English coast (over the Sea) were actually identified.

In other words 50% of the time our UK Defences only detected AIRCRAFT WERE APPROACHING our coasts, some of whom were FRIEND (returning bombers, fighters, coastal and other friendly aircraft) and/or FOE.

Despite all this misleading radar hype that we knew who were coming (we didn't always know), I suspect that this Sound Mirror might still be in use in 1940 and/or the installation would be guarded.
http://www.andrewgrantham.co.uk/soundmirrors/


Even getting a Death Certificate might not explain, as some simply have "War Operations" for Cause of Death (which includes both friendly incidents and operational incidents and I don't always trust CWGC to be correct either, as official Unit records are occasionally contrary to CWGC), although a Death Certificate might give the nearest road name and say in a field, or so many miles and a compass bearing from a main town.

Sometimes, the only clue is the Informant. However, I have discovered that ground civilians killed by RAF aircraft crashing on their houses have been reported by relatives, despite the aircrew deaths and a civilian aboard the aircraft (in the same incident) being reported by the RAF Unit who held the 'aircraft on charge' to the Registrar of the England & Wales Registration District.

If you get a Fighter Command grid reference let me know, I hold some Geographical Section General Staff maps for England (basically 1" OS, but with the Fighter Command grid overlay printed).

These should still be in ZOS 3 at TNA, Kew.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_cr=ZOS%203&_dss=range&_sd=1939&_ed=1945&_ro=any&_st=adv

Mark

Offline josey

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Re: Air accident Warren Point, Isle of Sheppey, Kent October 1940
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 09 December 17 13:07 GMT (UK) »
Very informative, Max & Mark, thank you.

I didn't know about MID being in the London Gazette [will now look for my mother's cousin who didn't talk about this but it was mentioned at his funeral earlier in the year] or about Sound Mirrors or about the censorship on certificates. My new knowledge for today, thanks.
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON