Author Topic: DNAA testing - unexpected consequences...  (Read 767 times)

Offline IgorStrav

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DNAA testing - unexpected consequences...
« on: Tuesday 12 December 17 11:10 GMT (UK) »
Morning all!

I finally got round to completing my 23andme DNA test (had bought it last year but with one thing and another didn't do my test tube spitting till recently), with the idea mostly of finding out about my genetic ancestry, but also confirming a few health details.

All well on the health front, which after all only reports on tendencies from huge cohorts of people, and slightly disappointed that my genetic ancestry is solidly a) UK/Irish (nearly half), b) French/German (I think my recent Belgian ancestry will come in that) and a smidgen of interesting Scandinavian stuff which entered apparently 18th and 19th century - ooh, what was going on there?

Nothing more exotic.

I would perhaps have done another brand of test if I'd realised that the raw data wouldn't be allowed to be updated to Ancestry (boo!) where my tree is.  But there you go.

So I first of all looked at my DNA relatives on 123and me, and also uploaded the data to Gedmatch and sure enough there are remote-ish relatives to be seen.  Not close, but 3/4 cousin sort of thing.

I've been in contact with two potentially 3rd cousins.

I was really naive here, I see now.

I thought I knew most of my gx2 grandparents, and therefore common surnames would pop out of our conversations.

Two things have happened.

1.  I did a table of my gx2 grandparents, gx3 grandparents and gx4 grandparents, and found that actually I didn't know as many of them as I had previously thought (they mount up, don't they).

2. Neither of the two contacts who've replied to me have any matching surnames AT ALL.

One has done a lot of research, but all the results are from Suffolk and Norfolk (I have none from there)
One hasn't done much at all, so to find the link I have to do it all for him.

My results so far are that I've got to try and think how to take my East End of London ancestors with very common surnames back a couple more generations, just to see where they came from if other than London......

Although on the other hand, I've done a large family tree for the other contact for one part of his ancestry - 200+ names - though without finding any commonalities, apart from the fact that, tantalisingly, the geographical location in Kent is very close to some of my ancestors.

Who knew it would be so difficult?  And if your contacts are people who aren't so keen on research, or so familiar with techniques (though I'm far from as expert as some of you guys here), you find yourself researching for other people.

Aaaaargh!






Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Belgium/East London.
Burton, East London.
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.

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Offline IgorStrav

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Re: DNAA testing - unexpected consequences...
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 12 December 17 11:15 GMT (UK) »
Though I should add that another unexpected consequence is that I had the opportunity of exploring the GRO online Births.

How FANTASTIC is it to confirm the MMN!!!!

Thrilled to death with that one.

Sorry, I know you've all been doing it ages..... 
 ;) ;) :D
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Belgium/East London.
Burton, East London.
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.

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Offline Spidermonkey

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Re: DNAA testing - unexpected consequences...
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 12 December 17 11:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi Igor Strav,

I have a similar story to you - several close(ish) matches showing up on ancestry and gedmatch but when contacted it seems that we don't share any common surnames.

So, perhaps there is a rogue ancestor out there, roaming home and abroad, impregnating anything he found. Or my research is incorrect. Or the generational claims made by the DNA companies are on the optimistic side (so 3rd generation matches are actually 5th or 6th generation).

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: DNAA testing - unexpected consequences...
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 12 December 17 11:29 GMT (UK) »
Or the generational claims made by the DNA companies are on the optimistic side (so 3rd generation matches are actually 5th or 6th generation).

I have to say that this seems more likely to me than the roaming ancestor, SpiderMonkey, tempting a thought though that is.

Although with the tree I've been doing, the geographical location is close to my 'travelling' ancestors and my bigamous gx2 grandfather, and I wouldn't put much past him or his family......  I think he was probably a good-looking rogue  ;)

Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Belgium/East London.
Burton, East London.
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.

Online KGarrad

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Re: DNAA testing - unexpected consequences...
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 12 December 17 12:39 GMT (UK) »
Probably a triumph of Marketing over achievement?! ;D ;D :-X
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: DNAA testing - unexpected consequences...
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 12 December 17 12:56 GMT (UK) »
Probably a triumph of Marketing over achievement?! ;D ;D :-X

yes

 :( :o ::) ::) ::)
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Belgium/East London.
Burton, East London.
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: DNAA testing - unexpected consequences...
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 13 December 17 22:17 GMT (UK) »
And my further consequences - not unexpected - are that I have, in desperation, gone back over the most difficult part of my tree, my Burton relatives in the very worst part of the East End of London in the 19th Century.

And whether they are Burton, Burden, Barton, Barden or any other possibility, they apparently didn't bother to marry or register their childrens' births, let alone have them christened.

They all came from St George in the East, and to be quite frank it doesn't help that Ancestry, when I am searching for them with all the facts I know clearly set out in the search boxes, seems to think it will help to bring all the SHROPSHIRE records to the top of the list.

 >:( >:( >:( >:(
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Belgium/East London.
Burton, East London.
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.

Offline rlw254

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Re: DNAA testing - unexpected consequences...
« Reply #7 on: Monday 18 December 17 03:26 GMT (UK) »
I typically add between 1 and 3+ generations to the MRCA figure given, based on how strong of a match it is. So far I've only been able to use autosomal DNA to confirm a 3C1R (43.5 cM, predicted MRCA 4.2, actual MRCA 4.5) and a 5C1R (25.7 cM, predicted MRCA 4.6, actual MRCA 6.5). This is actually not a very big difference in total shared DNA, although the relationships are quite distant. That being said, you're probably going to have the best luck identifying common ancestors when you share 50 cM or greater with a match. Remember also that largest matching segment sizes are important. Endogamous populations tend to inflate MRCA values.

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: DNAA testing - unexpected consequences...
« Reply #8 on: Monday 18 December 17 18:16 GMT (UK) »
yes, rlw54, I confess to having been overly optimistic and - very likely - totally naive.

KGarrad is probably right to say that the testing companies emphasise potential connections as a marketing tool.

I have been in correspondence with two potential matches,

one directly from 123andme where they predicted a 3rd cousin match with a 59cM share over 3 segments.  I've done quite a lot of work on one part of this person's tree - the part he knew least about, and the one with geographical proximity to some of my tree - but as yet no shared ancestors.  More work probably required.  He's not a family history researcher, so all the work on my part.

and

the other from Gedmatch where it's a 4.2 gen, 42.5cM and 571694 overlap, where the person involved says they have done a lot of research and the ancestry comes from Norfolk/Suffolk where I don't have any obvious connections.

There are more potentials, but I don't have the energy right now.....and after all, they could reach out to me, couldn't they!



Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Belgium/East London.
Burton, East London.
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.