Author Topic: Hepplewhite family  (Read 932 times)

Offline tjh1989

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Hepplewhite family
« on: Wednesday 13 December 17 23:19 GMT (UK) »
 Hi all

I'm looking for some help with the Hepplewhite side of my line as I'm concerned I've made a mistake. Please see my ancestry tree: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/38112967/family

1. Starting point: Robert Hepplewhite (born 1898)

The starting point is Robert Hepplewhite (born 1898 in Coundon, County Durham).

His birth certificate: https://imgur.com/a/87VYp
His marriage certificate: https://imgur.com/a/ICIco

These both show that his father was George (William) Hepplewhite (a colliery engineer) and that Robert was born in 1898.Mother is a Matilda Robson.

Turning to the census records:

1901
Code: [Select]
Registration district Auckland
Sub-registration district Bishop Auckland
ED, institution, or vessel 46
Piece 4650
Folio 8
Page number 8
Household schedule number 41

1911
Code: [Select]
Registration district Auckland
Registration District Number 547
Sub-registration district Bishop Auckland
ED, institution, or vessel 31
Piece 29733

Both show Robert to be living with his father and mother (all consistent with the above). George is shown on the census to have been born around 1874 in (East) Murton, Durham.

2. George William Hepplewhite

A search of the GRO register for a George Hepplewhite in 1874 +/- 2 years returns the following result: https://imgur.com/a/gwvhW

I believe that it is very likely the last entry i.e. George William Hepplewhite (1873) because of the middle name. One of the entries can be discarded as it is in London and we know George W was born in Durham. There is a risk that the George Hepplewhite (born 1875) also born in the Easington RD could have omitted his middle name as birth. I've proceeded on the basis that George W (1873) is mine (I think this is a pretty safe assumption?).

The following is that George W's birth certificate: https://imgur.com/a/XcA1X

It shows his father is Robert Hepplewhite (I'll call him Robert Hepplewhite Snr to avoid confusion) and his mother is Isabel Robinson. His father is shown as a 'gamekeeper'.

As to the census results (apart from those shown above):

1881
Code: [Select]
Registration district Northallerton
ED, institution, or vessel 7
Piece 4868
Folio 55
Page number 10

This shows George (age is pretty much right) living with 'Robert' and 'Isabella'. George's place of birth is shown as 'Murton Lane' but they appear to be living in East Cowton, North Yorkshire (which is quite a way from Murton). 'Robert' is shown as a Gamekeeper (which ties up with George W's birth certificate) who was born in 'Scotland'. I'm pretty sure this is them but not 100%.

1891
Code: [Select]
Registration district Auckland
Sub registration district Bishop Auckland
ED, Institution or Vessel 17
Piece 4069
Folio 114

George's details again seem to tie up. 'Robert' is now listed as a 'Coal Miner' who lived in Northumberland, Benwell. 'Isabella's details appear to match the 1881 census (born in 1833 Pelton village). However, what concerns me is that Robert's place of birth seems to be a different country, his profession is entirely different and his date of birth seems slightly different (perhaps not such an issue given census inaccuracies).

3.Isabella Robinson and Robert Hepplewhite

The following is the marriage certificate of Robert Hepplewhite Snr and Isabella Robinson in 1854: https://imgur.com/a/KQOZl

Robert Hepplewhite Snr's father is shown as George Hepplewhite and Isabella's as William Robinson. Both are shown as 'pitman' (i.e. a coalminer). The witnesses are not helpful. Is it odd that their son, George W, was born 20 years after their marriage (Isabella was 46 at the time)?

As for the census results (going backwards from 1881):

1871
Code: [Select]
Registration district Easington
Sub-registration district Easington
ED, institution, or vessel 5
Household schedule number 45
Piece 4971
Folio 86
Page number 10

'Robert' and 'Isabella' are shown living with a previous son John. 'Robert' is listed as being 39 which puts his birth at around 1832 (quite a bit different from the above). Think he is a 'woodsman'.

Can't find an 1861 census

1851 - Robert
Code: [Select]
Registration district Chester Le Street
Sub-registration district Chester
ED, institution, or vessel 8
Household schedule number 113
Piece 2394
Folio 217
Page number 32

This shows 'Robert' as '19' (ie born around 1830, quite different to the above) in Benwell and living with George and Frances. 'Robert' was a coalminer. .

1861 - Isabella
Code: [Select]
Sub-registration district Bishop Auckland
ED, institution, or vessel 33
Household schedule number 106
Piece 3712
Folio 11
Page number 22

Isabella Hepplewhite appears to be living by herself for some reason. I think it says that she is living with her father John Holmes. This is problematic as the above indicated that her maiden name was Robinson (maybe she was widowed from a Mr Robinson and remarried? I can't see a marriage between an Isabella Holmes and a Mr Robinson though) and her father was William.

Previous census confirm the 'Holmes' theory.
4. My queries

I'm looking to try and clarify the above which is causing me quite a bit of confusion! In essence, who was Robert's paternal grandfather and grandmother? Any birth records would be fantastic.

thanks

Tom

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Offline chempat

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Re: Hepplewhite family
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 13 December 17 23:28 GMT (UK) »
Sorry, but that is a lot of information.

Have you got the marriage certificate for the parents of Robert Hepplewhite (born 1898) - i.e. George and Matilda?

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Offline tjh1989

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Re: Hepplewhite family
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 13 December 17 23:32 GMT (UK) »
Sorry, but that is a lot of information.

Have you got the marriage certificate for the parents of Robert Hepplewhite (born 1898) - i.e. George and Matilda?

Hi

Yes, I'm sorry for the information overload. I've mostly documented it for my own purposes, I completely understand if others don't want to go through it.

No, I didn't buy that certificate as I didn't think it particularly useful. Would you recommend that I purchased it?

Thanks

Tom

Offline chempat

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Re: Hepplewhite family
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 14 December 17 06:48 GMT (UK) »
I always work back by buying birth and marriage certificates, just to cross-check.

I do not want to force you to spend more money, but I prefer to have the names of parents confirmed, then names of their fathers, and occupations and sometimes even witnesses can be very useful.

I do not like assumptions for direct family tree.

Offline Daisypetal

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Re: Hepplewhite family
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 14 December 17 19:46 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I think this might explain why Isabella is with parents John and Henrietta HOLMES on the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census and yet on her marriage certificate she calls her father William ROBINSON and her children show her mmn. as ROBINSON.

It was not Isabella that was a widow when she married Robert HEPPLEWHITE it was Henrietta ROBINSON when she married John HOLMES,

This is what I think happened,


Birth

Birth Date:  20 Dec 1807
Baptism Date:  29 Apr 1810
Chester Le Street, Durham
Henrietta REATHER
Parents:  William REATHER & Isabella WILSON 



Marriage

15 December 1832
Chester Le Street, Durham, England
Henrietta REATHER
William ROBINSON 



Baptism

Baptism Date:  14 September 1834
Chester Le Street, Durham
Isabella ROBINSON
Parents:  William & Henrietta ROBINSON


Possible burial for William,


Burial

William ROBINSON
Burial date:  28 Dec 1836
Burial:  Chester Le Street, Durham, England
Age at death:  29
Residence:  Pelton



Marriage

Marriage date:  12 Oct 1839
Marriage place:  Houghton-Le-Spring, Durham

Henrietta ROBINSON
Father:  William REATHER

John HOLMES
Father:  William HOLMES



The HOLMES boys showing on the 1851 and 1861 census show the mmn. as REATHER, I can't find a death for Henrietta HOLMES b.1848/49 but her baptism seems to be 16 Jan 1849, Shotley-Bridge, Durham.



If this is theory is right then it looks like Isabella just took her step-father's name in 1841 and 1851.


Hope this helps :)

Regards,
Daisy
All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Offline tjh1989

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Re: Hepplewhite family
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 14 December 17 20:27 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I think this might explain why Isabella is with parents John and Henrietta HOLMES on the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census and yet on her marriage certificate she calls her father William ROBINSON and her children show her mmn. as ROBINSON.

It was not Isabella that was a widow when she married Robert HEPPLEWHITE it was Henrietta ROBINSON when she married John HOLMES,

This is what I think happened,


Birth

Birth Date:  20 Dec 1807
Baptism Date:  29 Apr 1810
Chester Le Street, Durham
Henrietta REATHER
Parents:  William REATHER & Isabella WILSON 



Marriage

15 December 1832
Chester Le Street, Durham, England
Henrietta REATHER
William ROBINSON 



Baptism

Baptism Date:  14 September 1834
Chester Le Street, Durham
Isabella ROBINSON
Parents:  William & Henrietta ROBINSON


Possible burial for William,


Burial

William ROBINSON
Burial date:  28 Dec 1836
Burial:  Chester Le Street, Durham, England
Age at death:  29
Residence:  Pelton



Marriage

Marriage date:  12 Oct 1839
Marriage place:  Houghton-Le-Spring, Durham

Henrietta ROBINSON
Father:  William REATHER

John HOLMES
Father:  William HOLMES



The HOLMES boys showing on the 1851 and 1861 census show the mmn. as REATHER, I can't find a death for Henrietta HOLMES b.1848/49 but her baptism seems to be 16 Jan 1849, Shotley-Bridge, Durham.



If this is theory is right then it looks like Isabella just took her step-father's name in 1841 and 1851.


Hope this helps :)

Regards,
Daisy

Hi

I think that you are correct (should have figured this out myself)! I'm really really grateful for you help here.

Did you have any luck with Robert Hepplewhite Snr? I couldn't find a birth entry (civil or parish).

Thanks

Tom

Offline tjh1989

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Re: Hepplewhite family
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 14 December 17 21:18 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I think this might explain why Isabella is with parents John and Henrietta HOLMES on the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census and yet on her marriage certificate she calls her father William ROBINSON and her children show her mmn. as ROBINSON.

It was not Isabella that was a widow when she married Robert HEPPLEWHITE it was Henrietta ROBINSON when she married John HOLMES,

This is what I think happened,


Birth

Birth Date:  20 Dec 1807
Baptism Date:  29 Apr 1810
Chester Le Street, Durham
Henrietta REATHER
Parents:  William REATHER & Isabella WILSON 



Marriage

15 December 1832
Chester Le Street, Durham, England
Henrietta REATHER
William ROBINSON 



Baptism

Baptism Date:  14 September 1834
Chester Le Street, Durham
Isabella ROBINSON
Parents:  William & Henrietta ROBINSON


Possible burial for William,


Burial

William ROBINSON
Burial date:  28 Dec 1836
Burial:  Chester Le Street, Durham, England
Age at death:  29
Residence:  Pelton



Marriage

Marriage date:  12 Oct 1839
Marriage place:  Houghton-Le-Spring, Durham

Henrietta ROBINSON
Father:  William REATHER

John HOLMES
Father:  William HOLMES



The HOLMES boys showing on the 1851 and 1861 census show the mmn. as REATHER, I can't find a death for Henrietta HOLMES b.1848/49 but her baptism seems to be 16 Jan 1849, Shotley-Bridge, Durham.



If this is theory is right then it looks like Isabella just took her step-father's name in 1841 and 1851.


Hope this helps :)

Regards,
Daisy

Hi

I think that you are correct (should have figured this out myself)! I'm really really grateful for you help here.

Did you have any luck with Robert Hepplewhite Snr? I couldn't find a birth entry (civil or parish).

Thanks

Tom

Ah, I think the attached record is him.

Offline Daisypetal

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Re: Hepplewhite family
« Reply #7 on: Friday 15 December 17 17:52 GMT (UK) »

Glad you found him :)

I can't see him in 1861 but these pieces that are incomplete or missing in that census include places very near to Rumby Hill (John's POB) and Helmington Row where Isabella is,

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3101767


Maybe he was close by but the record is lost.


All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Offline tjh1989

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Re: Hepplewhite family
« Reply #8 on: Friday 15 December 17 17:57 GMT (UK) »

Glad you found him :)

I can't see him in 1861 but these pieces that are incomplete or missing in that census include places very near to Rumby Hill (John's POB) and Helmington Row where Isabella is,

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3101767


Maybe he was close by but the record is lost.


Glad you found him :)

I can't see him in 1861 but these pieces that are incomplete or missing in that census include places very near to Rumby Hill (John's POB) and Helmington Row where Isabella is,

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3101767


Maybe he was close by but the record is lost.

Thanks, just one final point if I may. Do you think I should be concerned about the census which shows that he was born in 'Scotland'?