Mertz, Dempsey, Kelly(or Kelley) Info. Request

[CrimsonFox]

Does anyone know anything about the Mertz family from Cheshire? I match with a Mertz family closely on a dna test. I also match with a Dempsey closely on that test as well. Supposedly the Dempsey's went to Cheshire after all their lands were confiscated. If anyone knows of any Mertz family that is connected to Dempsey's and Kelly's (or Kelley's) please PM me with the information. Thanks. 

[CaroleW]

Can you include some details of a timescale please.  Where did the Dempsey’s originate from?

There are lots of BMD entries for the surname Mertz but not in Cheshire so do you have any info re Christian names?    No marriages showing between a Mertz and a Dempsey in Cheshire or anywhere else

Freebmd has only one Mertz marriage (1944) and one Mertz death (1976) in Cheshire - same male

Please do not post details of any person who may still be alive as Rootschat has a “no living persons” policy

[CrimsonFox]

Hello,

Well my Mertz dna match that I mentioned has listed some information. It says Mertz decends paternally from a John Francis Reilly b. 1841 (Could also be spelled Riley, on the O'Reilly dna project page online two people share the Haplogroup marker of R-BY21239, with this Mertz, one spells his name as "Riley", the other as "Reilly.") There is only one problem. I only match with one Reilly. And the O'Reillys who were princes of East Co. Cavan decended from O'Rourkes and were closely related. So if my Reilly dna match was those O'Reilly's, I would probably have an O'Rourke dna match too. But I don't. So was there another family of Reilly's? (or Rileys). This is why I am thinking that this Reilly dna match is not related to the Cavan O'Reilly's and comes from somewhere else. Perhaps he is Scottish or English. Additionally, this Mertz dna match says that he uses the Mertz surname because it may be his father's mother's maiden name. So I'm not sure he really is a Mertz and I'm a bit confused. As I said he has listed  that he he's paternally decended from a John Francis Reilly. He also lists that he is maternally linked to the ancestral names of Gavin, McAndrews, and Gorman. I mentioned that my Dempsey dna match had all their lands confiscated and moved to Cheshire, Chester, England. I also have a dna match with a Treacy, which I believe may be  from Devon, England. So I guess I am trying to find out if there is any geographical location in England that has Kelly's(or Kelley's), Dempsey's, and Reilly's (or Riley's) in the records. 

Gene

[chempat]

I also have a dna match with a Treacy, which I believe may be  from Devon, England.

Could you say who the Treacy was and when he was living in Devon?

[CrimsonFox]

Hi Carole,

Yes, my Dempsey dna match claim to anciently come from Co. Offaly. He says he decends Paternally from a Patrick Dempsey b. ca 1817 d. 1898 in California, USA, and maternally from a Phoebe Harvey b. 1835 in Missouri, USA d. 1861 in California, USA. My Mertz match  (really O'Reilly, not Mertz) lists his paternal ancestor as "John Francis O'Reilly b. 1841?" He also says he maternally decends from the ancestral names Gavin, McAndrews, and Gorman. This O'Reilly (Mertz) match writes this as well:

"Mertz may be father's mother's maiden name. John Reilly 1841 is per temporary linked relationship in FTDNA that is no longer there."

Online he lists his ancestral names and origins as....
Smith [Hoboken, NJ], Smith [Hoboken, NJ], Mertz [Hoboken,NJ], Mertz [Hoboken,NJ], McAndrews [Providence, RI/Ireland], Gorman [Connecticut, USA], Gavin [Providence,RI], Gavin [Providence,RI]

I also have a close dna match to a Maley. He says that he is paternally decended from a Lawrence Maley b. 1756 Raphoe, Ireland d. 1806 West Virginia, USA. And this Maley match is decended maternally from Magdalena Balle b. 1848 d. Unknown.

I have a close dna match with a Gilmore. He claims he decends paternally from an Elijah Gilmore bc 1800 Georgia, USA d. Unknown and decends maternally from a Nancy Agnes Simpson d. 1844 Laurens County, South Carolina.

I have a close match with a Greer who claims to decend from a James Grear (birth and death date unlisted) paternally and decends maternally from Elizabeth Hines b. 1832.

I have a close match with a McGough who claims he decends paternally from an Andrew McGough (no dates or places listed) and maternally from Cecelia Lorentzsen (no dates or places listed). Carries Haplogroup R-S588, I am R-S658. I don't understand how I am even close to this individual if we have different Haplogroups. It says he shares 288,204 dna variants or markers with me.

I have a close match with a Gwinn who claims to decend from a Samuel Gwinn, b. c.1751, Augusta Co., Virginia and maternally decend from Elizabeth Betsy May (Mey?) 1799-1861 Tennessee.

I have a close dna match with a Bryant who claims to decend paternally from a Langley Bryant  1740-1811. No maternal ancestors listed.

 I have a close match with a Doherty who claims to decend paternally from Daniel James O'Doherty, MD b.1864 Buncrana,Donegal and maternally from Catherine Hahn b. abt 1806

I have a close match with a McLean who claims to decend paternally from John MacLean b.circa 1820 Tiree, Scotland and maternally from a Nina Rumbles nee Gordon b.1900 Banffshire, Scotland. This McLean carries the R-S588 Haplogroup as well. Just like my McGough dna match does.

And those are 10 of my closest dna matches. I am trying to figure out what they all have in common. How are they connected and how do they connect to my Kelly family. I was focusing on the Dempsey's, and O'Reilly's (or Rileys) to see how they connected to Kellys. I thought my Dempsey was my closest match. But technically my O'Reilly, Maley, Gilmore, Grear (paternally decends from a Grear), McGough, Gwinn and Bryant are all closer matches than my Dempsey dna match. This is the order of my dna matches, beginning with the closest match:

1. O'Reilly (Listed as Mertz)-289, 431 markers shared
2. Maley-289,111 markers shared
3. Gilmore-288,892 markers shared
4. Grear-288,401markers shared
5. McGough-288,204 markers shared
6. Gwinn-288,058 markers shared
7. Bryant-288,007 markers shared
8. Dempsey-287,879 markers shared
9. Doherty-287,877 markers shared
10.McLean-287,476 markers shared

I thought maybe there was a connection to England, because I read that the Dempsey's moved to Cheshire, Chester, England after all there lands in Ireland were confiscated. But maybe I'm mistaken since my McLean match comes from Tiree, Scotland and my Doherty match comes from Buncrana, Co.Donegal. I also thought their could be a link to England because I'm 2nd to 4th cousins with an Ufford. The Ufford pedigree info. I have is:

           Thomas Ufford (1560-1593) m. Elizabeth (1560-?)
His son Thomas Ufford (1590-1660) m. Isabel (1594-1654)
His son John Ufford (1626-1692) m. Martha Nettleton (1639-1692)
His son John Ufford (1667-1712) m. Abigail Shore (1670-?)
His son John Ufford (1713-1751) m. Mary (1716-1753)
His son Jonathan Ufford (1750-1824) m. Mary Goodrich (1751-1817)
His son Daniel Ufford (1785-1860) m. Lucy W. Morris (1791-1871)
His son Lucien Moreau Ufford (1816-1878) m. Esther Hastings Kellogg (1815-1893)
His son Henry Lucien Ufford (1855-1927) m. Martha Frances Jones (1862-1914)
His son Leonard Morris Ufford Sr. (1887-1966) m. Clara Isabelle Schnoop (1880-1968)
His son Leonard Morris Ufford Jr. (1915-2002) m. Edith Marion "Ede" McDonald (1915-2002)

There were more people in the Ufford pedigree, but the names were listed as private. None of the names mentioned in this message are living. Any ideas, suggestions, or info. you can provide would be a great help. Thanks.

Gene

[chempat]

Could you say if you have done any historical records searches for your e.g. great-great-grandparents (all of them) just to see what surnames are there in your tree, or is your research totally focused on your dna?

[CrimsonFox]

Hi Chempat,

No, my research has been done using both records and dna. But at the moment I am focusing more on dna because the Big Y dna test from FamilyTreeDNA.com, that I took, tests hundreds of thousands of markers. So it is deep dna research, it goes much deeper than typical Y-DNA tests do. My Kelly great great grandfather was Philip Kelly Jr. (b.1826 Ireland or England d. 1887 in Philadelphia, PA, USA). His wife was Mary Sullivan who lived on Glann Rd. in Oughterard, Co. Galway. My great grandfather William Kelly was born in Bury, Heywood, Lancashire, England. He married Ellen Quinn b. in Rochdale, England in 1874. Ellen's father's name was Michael Quinn and Margaret Walsh. The Quinn family was from Corlea,Co. Longford, Ireland. The entire Walsh family (Margarets aunts/uncles etc.) were all from Nenagh, Co. Tipperary and Margaret Walshes father Michael was from "Beleen", Nenagh, Co. Tipperary. My grandfather Francis Kelly married Constance A. Tierney but Constance was born in Manhatten, N.Y., USA, so I'm not sure it would have any relevancy on finding the geographical Kelly clan origins). I also have a cousin dna match (1st cousin twice removed, 4th cousin) with a Gloria Redgrave who decends from a Katherine Kelly b. Sept. 10th 1875 in liverpool, Lancashire, England d. 1950. Katherine was married to Issac (or Isaac) Williams who was b. in Rhyl, Wales and they had a son named William Shone Williams (1900-1946) who was born in Rhyl, Wales as well. William married Mae Elizabeth Burke (1902-1995). Mae Elizabeth Burkes parents were Thomas Burke (1856-1931) and Mary Bracken (1864-1917).

My two other maternal great great grandparents don't really matter at the moment because I know an enormous amount about my maternal line and where it comes from. I am researching my paternal Kelly line.

Regards,

Gene

[CrimsonFox]

Hi Carole & Chempat,

I have other relevant information regarding my cousin matches on my FamilyTreeDNA.com dna test....

1st cousin twice removed (I think that's a 4th cousin, but it says 5th cousin online):

-Finefrock....decended maternally from a a women with the surname "McCoy" and also from Susan Carol Everett b. 1942-? and a Grace Lydia Fair b. 1906-1983 and from another women with the last named Elizabeth Harple b.1790-1881 (whose mother had the maiden name Singer) and a Anna Barbara Finfrock b. 1769-1821. This Finefrock cousin dna match is also decended paternally from Luther Emanuel Finefrock b. 1900-1989, his father Willard E. Finefrock b. 1866-1955, his father Emmanuel Finefrock b. 1835-1915, his father John Jacob Peter Finefrock b. 1792-1881, and his father A. Nathaniel Finefrock b. 1768-1844 (who was married to Anna Barbara Finfrock b. 1769-1821).

I'm also 3rd to 5th cousins with:

-Butterworth (One of their ancestors John Butterworth b. 1701-? married a Susan Clegg, their son Joseph Butterworth married a Mary Howarth, his son James Butterworth 1775-1832 married Mary Hesketh 1777-1828, another Butterworth ancestor of this line Edmund Butterworth married Alice Milne, and the most distant ancestor of this line Francis Butterworth b. 1566 married a Nellie Lawson)

-Mahoney

-Lynch

-Pelton

-Duignan (maternally decended from a Russell, a Cull, and a McKeon) Hugh Duignan (1790-1869) married Ann Duignan, their son Hugh Duignan (1822-1899) married Bridget McKeon, their son Patrick Duignan (1872-1927) married Bessie Cull (1871-1916), their son David Patrick Deignan (1907-1966, surname altered) married Marion Bell Russell (1907-1986), their son private Deignan.

-Ross

-Richards

-Miller

-Smith

-Dann  (distant, only 2 dna segments match 3rd to 5th)

-Pirret (distant, only 1 dna segment matches 3rd to 6th cousin)

-O'Shea

-Conolly (yes, spelled this way, they decend from a Cribbens maternaly and a McKeown and Archer paternally)

-Donaghey (decended from Barr married to O'Regan)

-Hadden (Hadden ancestor James Hadden (1935-2009) married a Gantt (birth/death dates not listed) daughter of Vernon Gannt and Iren Hadden (1912-2009). James Hadden's father Wilbert Hadden married a woman with the maiden name "Castle."

-WynKoop (ancestors married Dr. James Cartwright Wynkoop (1867-1955) married Bessie E. De Butts (1872-1967), James's brother Henry Oden Wynkoop (1874-1919) married Ethel Cross (1878-1963), James's  father  Philip Henry Wynkoop (1825-1886) married Susan Catherine Corr (1838-1877), and Philip's father  Philip (1785-1838) married Elizabeth Cartwright (1785-1866), Philip Wynkoop Seniors father Cornelius Wynkoop (1754-1824) married Cornela Van Pelt (1784-?). Cornelius's father Philip (1709-1771) married Margareta Kowwenhoven (1714-1775, aka Couwenhoven) daughter of Cornelius Williamse Van Counwenhoven (1672-1736) and Margaretta Roelofs Van Couwenhoven
 (1677-1751).

-Richter (Ancestors married a Petter and a Welsch)

2nd to 4th Cousins

-Ufford (decended from Robert de Ufford, son of John de Peyton)

-Hughes (ancestor Robert Harry Hughes (1915-1965) married Rita McGinley (1916-1992), Robert & Rita's son James Harry Hughes Sr. (1940-1990) married a "Hardy" (daughter of Robert Hardy (1902-1942) and Mildred McGlynn (1906-1990).  James Harry Hughes Sr. and his wife with the maiden name Hardy had a son named James Hughes).