Author Topic: Vetter emigrants from Prussia to England - x-posted to Immigrants board.  (Read 6563 times)

Offline hilarykellis

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Vetter emigrants from Prussia to England - x-posted to Immigrants board.
« on: Monday 18 December 17 21:07 GMT (UK) »
Hi all,

My ancestor Conrad Heinrich Vetter is first found in the 1851 census living with his wife and their children at Crown Court in Manchester, Lancashire. He is a musician, professor of music, and music instrument repairer in future censuses (eventually the family moves to Chorley).

He was born about 1816 and his birth place is consistently "Prussia," or Germany in census records. His wife was born about 1810 and I know she is from Hesse and was previously married to a Jacob Veit (her maiden name was Thorn). She had a daughter, Catharina Veit, from that marriage, who married Jacob Stutt in Manchester - he was also German.

Their first son, Frederick, is baptised in Manchester in 1843 so I know both Conrad Heinrich and his wife Anna Maria were in Manchester by then. I can't find them in the 1841 census. They didn't marry until 1846 after first baptising a second son, John.

In 1861 Conrad Heinrich is referred to as a British subject, implying he was naturalized between 1851 and 1861. He is always referred to as a British subject thereafter until his death in 1890. He seems to have gone by Henry Vetter (his name on most of his children's birth certificates, marriage certs, etc). His wife is buried as Mary Vetter. Sometimes their last name is mis-spelled Fetter or Fether (V and F pronounced similarly in German, apparently).

I can't find Conrad Heinrich or his wife (with her maiden, 1st married, or 2nd married names) in any of the passenger lists or foreign arrivals lists on Ancestry (I did find their neighbors, the Hausers).

Where else could I look for records of these emigrants? I would really like to find Conrad Heinrich's kingdom of origin. His son Fred became a pretty well-respected musician (playing for the royal family on a few occasions) and clearly learned his talent from his father.

Thanks in advance!

Offline sugarbakers

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Re: Vetter emigrants from Prussia to England - x-posted to Immigrants board.
« Reply #1 on: Monday 18 December 17 22:52 GMT (UK) »
You might find this of background interest ... The Settlement of Germans in Britain during the Nineteenth Century ... www.mawer.clara.net/ppanayi.html

I have mention of a Henrich Vetter/Vette of Prussia working in London 1861, though he was much younger. It's likely he arrived at London, but more likely your family arrived at Hull.
Have you tried the Hull History Centre  http://www.hullhistorycentre.org.uk/home.aspx  for their ships lists ... I'm told there was considerable research done by a group at Hull Uni some years ago on Hull arrivals, which the History Centre may have or have access to.
Almeroth, Germany (probably Hessen). Mawer, Softley, Johnson, Lancaster, Tatum, Bucknall (E.Yorks, Nfk, Lincs)

Sugar Refiners & Sugarbakers ... www.mawer.clara.net ...
50,000+ database entries, 270+ fatalities, 210+ fires, history, maps, directory, sales, blog, book, 500+ wills, etc.

WDYTYA magazine July 2017

Offline Rena

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Re: Vetter emigrants from Prussia to England - x-posted to Immigrants board.
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 19 December 17 04:35 GMT (UK) »
I've found an online Google book entitled:  "A Dictionary of Musicians" dated 1824.

In it are a couple of Vetter musicians, one of whom lived in the Hesse area and the other in Leipzig, Saxony, which could be a starting point for your research.

Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Online amondg

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Re: Vetter emigrants from Prussia to England - x-posted to Immigrants board.
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 19 December 17 06:25 GMT (UK) »
Their neighbours in 1851 Johannes and Maria Thorn maiden name Seipp married Manchester 20 June 1848 witness at the marriage Maryann Thorn.
Are they related? your mention of wife's maiden name.
Johannes Thorn came via Dover 3 April 1844 with 3 others and were described as Travelling Musicians

So Dover would be another port to check.


Offline ShaunJ

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UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline garstonite

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Re: Vetter emigrants from Prussia to England - x-posted to Immigrants board.
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 20 December 17 07:22 GMT (UK) »
www.geneanet.org

Conrad and ANN Maria ( not Anna ) are mentioned in a record and the location is
St Mark church
Hulme
Chorley
Lancashire
so have you found them living in Hulme - or just as Chorley ...I have no idea whether St Mark in Hulme has any Parish records but it might be worth googling to find out  :)

ADDED I notice Jacob Stutt and Catharina Veit married in Manchester Cathedral - a later record in Hulme
Baptism: 23 Aug 1857 St Mark, Hulme, Lancashire, England
 Eliza Stutt - Daughter of Jacob Stutt & Catharine
     Abode: 24, William St., Hulme
     Occupation: Shoemaker
     Baptised by: A. W. Archer
     Register: Baptisms 1847 - 1874, Page 71, Entry 561
     Source: LDS Film 2357302
maybe this address in William St might help in some way ?

- but - in St Paul ,Hulme in 1866 a Jacob Stutt and  Elenor J Stutt (nee Lyon )are having baptisms ...so it looks like both families are in Hulme all be it in different churches .
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline hilarykellis

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Re: Vetter emigrants from Prussia to England - x-posted to Immigrants board.
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 21 December 17 20:08 GMT (UK) »
Their neighbours in 1851 Johannes and Maria Thorn maiden name Seipp married Manchester 20 June 1848 witness at the marriage Maryann Thorn.
Are they related? your mention of wife's maiden name.
Johannes Thorn came via Dover 3 April 1844 with 3 others and were described as Travelling Musicians

So Dover would be another port to check.

Thanks, I have looked through Dover arrivals and couldn't find them. This Johannes we do believe is a relative of Anna Maria Thorn, I've been in touch with his descendants. However we were not a DNA match so we're not sure what that means.

Offline hilarykellis

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Re: Vetter emigrants from Prussia to England - x-posted to Immigrants board.
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 21 December 17 20:10 GMT (UK) »
www.geneanet.org

Conrad and ANN Maria ( not Anna ) are mentioned in a record and the location is
St Mark church
Hulme
Chorley
Lancashire
so have you found them living in Hulme - or just as Chorley ...I have no idea whether St Mark in Hulme has any Parish records but it might be worth googling to find out  :)

ADDED I notice Jacob Stutt and Catharina Veit married in Manchester Cathedral - a later record in Hulme
Baptism: 23 Aug 1857 St Mark, Hulme, Lancashire, England
 Eliza Stutt - Daughter of Jacob Stutt & Catharine
     Abode: 24, William St., Hulme
     Occupation: Shoemaker
     Baptised by: A. W. Archer
     Register: Baptisms 1847 - 1874, Page 71, Entry 561
     Source: LDS Film 2357302
maybe this address in William St might help in some way ?

- but - in St Paul ,Hulme in 1866 a Jacob Stutt and  Elenor J Stutt (nee Lyon )are having baptisms ...so it looks like both families are in Hulme all be it in different churches .

Hello,

yes this Jacob Stutt is the same person - he remarried to Eleanor Lyon after Catherina Veit Stutt, his first wife (and Anna Maria Thorn's daughter), died young. I did have the Vetters living in both Hulme and Chorley. Thank you!

Offline hilarykellis

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Re: Vetter emigrants from Prussia to England - x-posted to Immigrants board.
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 21 December 17 20:12 GMT (UK) »
I've found an online Google book entitled:  "A Dictionary of Musicians" dated 1824.

In it are a couple of Vetter musicians, one of whom lived in the Hesse area and the other in Leipzig, Saxony, which could be a starting point for your research.

This is interesting, thank you...no idea if they're related because Vetter seems a fairly common surname but the musical trend is quite intriguing.